tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post8697003940324354389..comments2023-09-26T08:20:15.098-05:00Comments on Criss writes...: "Feministas" and the T-Word: The AftermathCriss L. Coxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04664903417376487387noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-83919753656639095732010-03-11T16:33:08.086-06:002010-03-11T16:33:08.086-06:00ps- Thanks, Criss, for writing this and helping br...ps- Thanks, Criss, for writing this and helping bring this issue more into light. I knew the t-word wasn't proper to use, but didn't know it had that bad of a connotation. Now I know, and can speak up if I hear others using it.Marcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00792375260633790983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-54427303979257756352010-03-11T16:29:45.028-06:002010-03-11T16:29:45.028-06:00Wow. It is sad how quickly those who have been opp...Wow. It is sad how quickly those who have been oppressed, and thus you'd think would know better, can turn around and do the exact same to others. <br /><br />Erica K, Criss is not attacking here. If this is an "attack" then I don't know how you deal with bad reviews or anyone else who might happen to disagree with you. Because she is being incredibly civil and patient in trying to show you how badly you effed up here, and you're just pouting and kicking back like a spoiled 5 year old child.<br /><br />"Subculture?" Good lord, woman.Marcyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00792375260633790983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-15685487768861918002010-03-10T11:12:59.841-06:002010-03-10T11:12:59.841-06:00Thank you, everyone, for your comments. And thank ...Thank you, everyone, for your comments. And thank you for addressing the "subculture" thing -- I was going to, but didn't have the right words. You all did, and much better ones than mine.Criss L. Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664903417376487387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-44519525189692199312010-03-10T11:02:17.367-06:002010-03-10T11:02:17.367-06:00Erica:
When you used the word "tranny" r...Erica:<br />When you used the word "tranny" repeatedly in your novel, you cast the first stone. You are the one who attacked first -- Voz and I responded.<br /><br />If Sydney never wrote the article, why was she fired? What did she do? How did the transgender community find out about it? Why were "the cross-dressers" picketing outside her apartment?<br /><br />That part of the story was not clear at all. I was confused by it (maybe because my brain was too angry at the language and events of the previous chapter to be reading too closely), but from the way it was written, and the reaction of the general public, the only obvious conclusion was that the article had been published. I was confused as to from which trip she was returning, but if there was already all this outrage and rioting and picketing going on, time had to have elapsed between the interview and the firing. (Even if The Raven alerted the trans community about the way Sydney treated her, via Internet she did not have in her remote spa, there would not be enough time for Syndey to be fired on her return flight from the interview and to have such an uproar from the public.)<br /><br />I'm glad "your approach" worked in one specific isolated situation. Congratulations. I'm trying to be civil, so that's all I'm going to say about that.Criss L. Coxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04664903417376487387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-27071270232169573742010-03-10T03:59:44.437-06:002010-03-10T03:59:44.437-06:00"Because this is a subculture"
Erica, t..."Because this is a subculture"<br /><br />Erica, this was probably THE most patronising, offensive and outright flawed statement ever made. People's identity is not a subculture. Subculture is the community based around an activity like art/music/sports you name it. People's friggin identity is not a subculture. If it were, you could also claim that women as a whole are a subculture, not to mention POC like it was said above.<br /><br />You say the task of educating is something you DO shoulder. But that's not what Criss was talking about. Shouldering a burden freely and voluntarily is not the same as having the duty to shoulder that burden. BIG EFFING DIFFERENCE. I, too, take it upon myself to educate people about my disability once in a while. Mostly in the case where these people mean something to me. But is it my duty to do so? No way. IT is not your duty to educate people about race relations - that you do so anyway is your choice, and unfortunately also sometimes a necessity because the kyriarchy WILL start a backlash if you don't. I've been shouted down because I had the nerve to not let everybody know the intimate details of my disability. That does not make it my duty to educate others - but sometimes it makes it necessary for my own survival.<br /><br />Learn the meaning of duty, necessity and voluntary.<br /><br />"I don't dialogue with people who come at me on the attack."<br /><br />Too bad you just made possibly THE most common derailing argument. The TONE argument. How many times have POC been told that whites would listen to them if only they weren't so angry? How many times have disabled people been told that able-bodied/minded people would listen if only they weren't so bitter? <br /><br />You know what? If lives are in danger, which they very much are when it comes to trans people (and especially trans women), it's bloody obvious why people are a mite angry. And you, as the privileged party here, should accept that anger for what it is: namely an anger directed at a society that systematically oppresses and causes the deaths of trans women, a system that you have CHOSEN to represent with your behaviour. Anger is understandable, anger is justified. If you ignore good arguments, because of people's anger then you are proving yourself every bit the bigot. If someone smacks you in the face, and then tells you that getting angry really doesn't solve anything, when you yell at him he's a piece of shit for hitting you, will you then calm down, immediately forget your anger and quietly explain to him why hitting people is really not okay, but still a totally valid choice? Or will you just be more angry at his insolence? Hmmmm... <br /><br />So when you have verbally smacked trans people in the face, do you honestly expect them to just not be angry with you, because you tell them their anger won't solve a thing? <br /><br />Cis is not a hard term to educate yourself about. Especially not if you're already moving/reading in the circles where terms like trans and cis are commonly used. And that's something you really ought to be doing if you're writing books on the subject. If you were new to the subject you might have had an excuse, but since you're written about it, it's completely fair to expect of you the ability to do research. <br /><br />It is apparently also unrealistic to expect privileged ass-wipes to care enough to actually do that research.Jemima Aslanahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01640917506942166322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-23858345057121952472010-03-10T02:02:22.736-06:002010-03-10T02:02:22.736-06:00The simple fact that you won't educate yoursel...<b>The simple fact that you won't educate yourself shows that you don't give a damn about these women.</b><br /><br />I'd add to that that she's busy wasting energy shouting down people trying to school her instead of doing any actual learning.<br /><br />Erica, just cuz you've been disrespected in your life as a cis woc doesn't make it okay to turn around and do the same damn thing to women less privileged than you. you will not get what you expect from doing this.<br /><br />You need to lay off the power trippin, cuz it will not suit you well in life, even if you disagree. Showing yourself as so smallminded as to bully a group of women even less empowered than yourself is more than wrong, it shows a petty mind, and a small heart.<br /><br />You know the score, you have the information, anything else you do here is just more bullying. <br /><br />So, think it over, and do the right thing, or not. Ball's in your court, huhn.vozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06282375694936602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-10996877344848843922010-03-10T00:48:56.835-06:002010-03-10T00:48:56.835-06:00Seriously Erica K. you make me ashamed to be a cis...Seriously Erica K. you make me ashamed to be a cisgender/cissexual black woman, really.<br /><br />Being a trans woman is a SUBCULTURE, now? Being a black cis woman make you a part of a subculture of black cis women? I didn't know about this...<br /><br />Also, from the way you've been responding to this, I get the feeling you do not think trans women rights are "important". I could just be assuming, but I'm pretty sure you're not willing to fight and argue for the rights of these women. And that's sickening. Maybe you should remember that it wasn't even a century ago that your cisprivileged black self couldn't even vote, let alone marry outside of your race in marriage. Heck, you probably couldn't publish a book as mediocre as the one that you currently have published. I wanted to respect you, I really did, but you're losing that respect. It's one thing to be uneducated on a subject due to the society we live in, but it's one to be totally dismissive about trying to educate YOURSELF, instead of expecting a group of less-privileged women to educate you about how the world is constantly screwing them over. Google. Yes, google. It won't hurt you. The simple fact that you won't educate yourself shows that you don't give a damn about these women.<br /><br />I pray for you. Yours is coming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-39975296571992276992010-03-09T23:51:48.764-06:002010-03-09T23:51:48.764-06:00Try "cisgender", lots of stuff comes up ...Try "cisgender", lots of stuff comes up and not about computer stuff. Or ask for clarification if you really can't be bothered to try a few logical permutations of the word first. The point remains this is not a "cause" it's people lives and the things that effect those lives. A woman of color should understand why, if something so deeply personal as a piece of your very identity is being attacked, someone might come up with a bit less patience than usual. But even so, that both voz and Criss are still engaging with you, obviously shows that they ARE being patient and ARE trying to share knowledge, not just attack you "for no reason" or some such thing.whatsernamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15731411057968563416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-28760627217072406702010-03-09T23:26:29.584-06:002010-03-09T23:26:29.584-06:00Oh, I'm reading it. And I think Criss and Voz ...Oh, I'm reading it. And I think Criss and Voz are pretty bad at promoting this cause so I hope they're not the spokespeople for it in any way. I don't dialogue with people who come at me on the attack.<br /><br />And this post starts off by saying when you google "cis" a whole bunch of computer stuff comes up. You know why? Because this is a subculture that doesn't have enough recognition to come up higher in a google search. <br /><br />Secondly, Sydney got fired right after the interview, before she got on the plane to go home. She never wrote the article. So that nullifies the whole middle part of this post.<br /><br />And yes, Criss, the task of educating people about what is discriminatory to me as a woman of color IS a task that I do shoulder on a regular basis. I wrote an email last year that got a huge advertising campaign discontinued. I didn't just start hurling accusations, I explained that it was offensive to ME and asked them to educate me about what they were thinking in creating it. My approach worked. You should try it.<br /><br />http://www.bvblackspin.com/2008/10/28/subway-yanks-internet-ad/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-51735004910750132812010-03-09T20:17:32.114-06:002010-03-09T20:17:32.114-06:00I agree with you 100%. I hope she reads this.I agree with you 100%. I hope she reads this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-46460626214992667852010-03-09T18:23:19.465-06:002010-03-09T18:23:19.465-06:00I agree with this post, and the commentors here.
...I agree with this post, and the commentors here.<br /><br />I didn't bother too long with Erica because, it was evident from jumpstreet that she had no interest in learning, nor in basic respect. One cannot dialog with someone who believes that you do not even have the agency of naming oneself.<br /><br />When a mujer angrily defends her own slurring an entire class of women marginalized relative to her, that is not an opening to dialogue, it is contributing to the brutal misogyny which gets so many women like me killed. It is endorsing our murders and our oppression as a product to be purchased and enjoyed.<br /><br />Again, when a mujer uses the dehumanization of women who lack institutional protections and access she enjoys freely to sell a book, that is a threat to the lives, safety, and personhood of women like me.<br /><br />Make no mistake, she demonstrated enough knowledge about institutional transmisogyny to make a product that appealed to it. She demonstrated that in her view of the Universe, harming an entire community of women relatively disempowered to her was a small price to pay for character development. She knew hatred of trans women would appeal to the same audience that a book titled "Feminista" would appeal to.<br /><br />And there is no arguing with this level of ingrained belief in her own superiority and arrogance.<br /><br />Her demand for "dialog" reflects this; it was really a demand to bow to privilege, and to pretend her slurs were reasonable, and that trans women's lives are beneath hers, and our time and lives disposable at her whim and pleasure.<br /><br />That's when it's time to call out, and to regulate fools, not engage in a "dialog" that is premised on a disrespectful cissupremacy.<br /><br />Props to you for dealing with this fool as patiently as you have. I run into them every day, and I live with the fact that one day my life may be ended by some fool who believes as she does.vozhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06282375694936602039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-78175008050379966622010-03-09T17:25:15.882-06:002010-03-09T17:25:15.882-06:00Well played. Sorry, I know that makes the whole th...Well played. Sorry, I know that makes the whole thing sound so trite when this makes me absolutely furious as well. You've said everything that I would have said, except better, and I really appreciate it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-64572743146104608272010-03-09T16:18:39.266-06:002010-03-09T16:18:39.266-06:00Thank you for both of your posts on this topic, Cr...Thank you for both of your posts on this topic, Criss. I do think it's really important to speak up about these kinds of issues and to educate yourself either when you come across things you don't understand or you are called out on your ignorance. <br /><br />And may I just say that I think you handled the comments in your other post very well.Laurahttp://adventuresofayoungfeminist.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-37507520.post-45877107903338293052010-03-09T15:10:26.927-06:002010-03-09T15:10:26.927-06:00This is excellent.This is excellent.DancingGrapeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04783328016444406467noreply@blogger.com