Six weeks ago, when I took the pee test and Freddy and I saw the little "+" on the EPT, I was SO EXCITED!!! (We'd been trying for a few months. I was starting to get REALLY MAD at my body for not cooperating.)
But we couldn't tell anyone, until we got medical confirmation form a real doctor and a real sonogram. Why? Two reasons:
- stupid Glee, and it's "hysterical pregnancy." I don't even know if that's a real thing, but I really, really wanted to be pregnant. So what if, instead of actually being pregnant, my stupid body was playing a REALLY MEAN TRICK on me? What if the missing period and hugely swollen and painful breasts were JUST A JOKE?
- okay, let's say I was really, truly, honest-to-goodness pregnant. WHAT IF THE STUPID EMBRYO HAD GOTTEN ITSELF STUCK IN THE FALLOPIAN TUBE and never made it to the uterus??
Paranoid much? Yes, very. Thank you.
Turns out not only am I REALLY actually pregnant, but the fetus is hanging out in the uterus, right where it's supposed to be.
BUT WHAT GUARANTEE DO I HAVE THAT IT'S GOING TO STAY THERE?
Do you have any clue the number of things that can go wrong with a pregnancy? DID YOU KNOW VITAMIN A IS BAD FOR YOU?? (Well, not you -- it's bad for fetuses. If you're reading this blog post you've already made it out of your mother's uterus, so vitamin A is fine for you.)
It's a VITAMIN, for crying out loud! How can a VITAMIN be bad?
You know what else is bad for fetuses? Herbal tea.
Let me say that again:
HERBAL. TEA.
Bad for you.
(Again, not you. Bad for fetuses.)
Did you have any idea? Because I didn't.
Until I read the section of this pregnancy book about foods that are or are not bad for you, which are myths and which you really do need to avoid. And herbal tea was one of them. AND IT WAS NOT A MYTH.
Sure, it said it small doses it was fine -- BUT HOW CAN HERBAL TEA BE BAD? EVER?? It's freaking tea, for crying out loud! And it's the wimpiest of teas, at that!
And you know what I found out yesterday?
My pre-natal vitamin only has 400 mcg of folic acid.
Do you know how many mcg of folic acid I should be getting, according to Fit Pregnancy magazine? 600 mcg.
And do you know when is the MOST CRUCIAL period when the embryo needs to get the right amount of folic acid? Weeks 6-10. Which means I have two days to make up a 200 mcg deficiency for the last month. Or my fetus will develop some horrible neuro tube defect, and it will all be MY FAULT.
At least, Utah would definitely say so. Utah would probably call my behavior "reckless." For not double-checking the dosage on the pre-natal vitamins my OB/GYN prescribed. Or something -- hey, where there's a will, there's a way, right, anti-choice?
(Oh, also? Two Sundays ago, at church, I took communion wine. It was just an automatic motion, they gave me the tiny vial of wine and I took it, instead of pointing to the tray of grape juice vials. What would Utah think of that?)
You know those really annoying information-overload bing commercials? I'm kind of like that right now, with pregnancy complications. I've read so many stories of things that can go wrong in a pregnancy, especially in the third trimester, that I'm one big panic ball. I am fully aware of all the things that can go wrong -- actually, I'm fully aware of a fraction of the things that can go wrong. I know there are a bazillion other things that can go wrong that I don't even know about yet. Stuff doctors don't even know about, and can't predict or explain.
This is why we call it a fetus. It's not a baby until it comes out, and it coming out, becoming a baby, is not a given. At all.
I really, really want this fetus to become a baby. You have no idea how long I've been waiting for this baby. Freddy and I picked out names before we were even married. This "baby" has been alive for years, even though it was only (physically) conceived in February. And I have to wait until October to find out if it's going to materialize into a real, live, human baby.
It's going to be a long seven more months.
Congratulations! Criss! Soo happy for you. Welcome to motherhood!
ReplyDeleteCongratulations!
ReplyDeleteNow go get yourself some calmer pregnancy books. Or skip them entirely. It'll all be fine, really. And even if not... it'll still be fine.
Oh you sweet naive girl. You think the panic will end in 7 months? My fetus has been a fully realized person for 18 years, and I'm still a big ball of panic. :)
ReplyDeleteCongratulations!
Congrats, you!!
ReplyDeleteAww.... Does this mean I really need to perfect my baby-blanket making skills? ;)
Congrats! <3
ReplyDeleteSQUEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'M GONNA BE AN AUNTIE!!! AND I CAN FINALLY TALK ABOUT ITTTT!!!!
ReplyDeleteNow that I got that out of the way... I may need to send you a copy of Free Range KIds NOW before the kid has even arrived... lol All those scary things you keep reading about? There's probably about a 0.0002% chance of them happening. And when I was pregnant with D just 3 years ago 400mg of folic acid was what was recommended.
That was one thing I liked about being in Europe while pregnant for the first time. In the US the list of Things To Avoid is about a mile long. In Europe, it was "Don't eat raw meat, and make sure you wash your lettuce thoroughly." That was IT. And their babies came out fine. (take D as an example).
HUGS and let me know if you need help getting talked down from whatever nervous frenzy you've gotten yourself into. Because, seriously, you'll need the practice. If you think you're worked up NOW just wait till you really do have that live, breathing baby in your arms and the number of things to worry about multiplies by about a bazillion. (not to scare you or anything)
OMG!!!!!
ReplyDeleteCongrats! Congrats! Congrats!!!
How exciting for you and your husband! Many congratulations and well wishes!
ReplyDeleteI will offer you the same advice I offer all my newly pregnant friends:
ReplyDelete1. Turn off all the noise, and listen to yourself. TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. People have been having babies since time began, and we really do know what to do, if we just listen to ourselves.
2. You and Freggy, or you alone, GET UP AND WALK OUT OF THE HOUSE. Do it now. Do it often. Just leave your house, and go somewhere. Because once that baby gets here, you will not be able to easily leave your house again for a VERY LONG TIME. I get a lot of "thanks" or "you were so right" from people I tell this one. Trust me, and do it. Leave now. This comment will still be here when you get back. ;-)
How is this going to impact NaNoWriMo???
Ohhh...congrats!!!
ReplyDeleteCongrats!!!! And don't worry - people have been having perfectly normal babies for millions of years despite smoking, drinking, and, in my case (born 1968) probably a few stronger drugs. This will change your life so much but it is ABSOLUTELY worth it!
ReplyDeleteThank you, everybody!!!
ReplyDeleteThe rational part of my brain knows I'm over-worrying... Cavewomen had babies all the time, and they were fine! But the worry-wart gene is one I inherited from my mom. :P
Now, on to IMPORTANT matters... NaNoWriMo! :P
My dude date's October 20th. The naive part of me says, "Dude, I'll still be on 'maternity leave' [read: saved up sick and vacation time] to write in November!" Except for that whole newborn = no sleep part of the equation...
Something to help calm your nerves re: the vitamins: http://www.themidwifenextdoor.com/?p=729
ReplyDeleteCongrats Criss! I was completely like you, a huge ball of nerves, except in my case, I actually did lose the baby at nine weeks. But, keep in mind, I have a TON of health issues. Plus, most miscarriages will happen because of genetic issues, which you can't even test for until later in the pregnancy. So, from someone who has been through the worst and come out on the other side (and looking forward to trying again in 2 months- it would be sooner, but doctor's orders), listen to the previous advice. Eat healthy, exercise, and enjoy your partner. Worrying about things just makes it worse. :)
ReplyDeleteCongratulations, I am so very happy for you! While reading the beginning of this post I totally thought of the bing commercials and laughed out loud when you mentioned it.
ReplyDeleteGlad you have a sane bunch of people following your blog. I like all the comments. Knowing you have the worry wort gene (and how many years of modeling?? by me) is an advantage if you're going to have it-- you can catch yourself worrying and automatically discount 50 to 99% of it, and find trusworthy others to slap you upside your head if needed to "CHILL", be yourself, trust your body and spirit, and I believe there is a God in all this that has something to do with it we will never understand, so need to just respect. I hope you can begin breathing easier and just love being pregnant -- it's a trip.
ReplyDeleteLove,
Mom
First off, congratulations. :-) You will make an epic mommy.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, STOP READING CRAZY BOOKS. Read good pregnancy books. Right now I'm reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth, and I think EVERYONE should be required to read it. I'm also required to suggest a doula, as a person who might want to be one.
And like someone else said, go do something with your man before there's a little one distracting you. Enjoy it!
Now that's TWO recommendations for Ina May's book. Guess who's going to Borders today...
ReplyDeleteThe books were not so crazy, but I have decided against getting a pregnancy mag subscription. Those just want to sell you stuff, and scare the bejeezus out of you.
Hi Criss,
ReplyDeleteCongrats! why did you say you had a 'fetus' in your belly? That's your baby!! A pregnant mother doesn't say 'oh, the fetus kicked'
Elizabeth
Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteThanks, but, to answer your question, did you read the whole post? I say exactly why I call it a fetus.
Because that's what it is. I hope it becomes a baby, but there is no guarantee. Once it's a baby, I'll call it a baby.
Maybe YOU as a pregnant mother don't/didn't/won't say "Oh, the fetus kicked," but THIS pregnant mother will.
"Because that's what it is. I hope it becomes a baby, but there is no guarantee."
ReplyDeletewhen does he/she miracoulously become a baby?
Elizabeth.
"This is why we call it a fetus. It's not a baby until it comes out"
ReplyDeleteOh. wow. I'm outta here, you're an evil, sick person. sorry.
Elizabeth
"Maybe YOU as a pregnant mother don't/didn't/won't say "Oh, the fetus kicked," but THIS pregnant mother will."
ReplyDeleteYou are not a mother until you acknowledge your child.
Congratulations on your live, human, growing unborn baby!!
ReplyDeleteAn ultrasound will clear up things up for you pretty quickly. Try a refresher course in basic Biology!!
It isn't a frog you are pregnant with, my dear.
We don't throw Fetus Showers.
Congratulations, Criss! Did you know you're quoted on the front page of www.jillstanek.com today? :)
ReplyDeleteI just found out a week ago that I'm expecting. A surprise baby. Due date is November 21st - a month after yours! ;) How are you feeling? I've started the dreadful 24/7 nausea phase. Always been the hardest part for me. My last pregnancy the nausea lasted until the 16th week. I hope it won't be as intense this time. :P
Many blessings! :)
-@bekahferguson
Fetus is Latin for "little one" or "young one". Btw.
ReplyDeleteBut the proaborts have hijacked that term to dehumanize the unborn.
How many abortions have you had?
Watching mental gymnastics of a pregnant person/mother trying to justify abortion is almost as fun as watching the actual gymnasts in the Olympics, and just as much bending is required.
ReplyDeleteSo when the head is still inside, and the body and feet are out, the scissors and suction tube are inserted into the fetus to suck out brain tissue, and the part hanging out that the doc is hanging onto is a baby (cause it's out), right? Half fetus, half baby....hmmmmm.....
ReplyDeleteWhen you are holding the baby has "been alive for years" think about this, ok?
And sincerely, I have a request/challenge, (whatever). Please blog some fetus talk after your twenty week sono, and tell us what is really in your belly.....and something even more profound - if you have a sono after 20 weeks, tell us what's in the 'ol uterus then, cause if you went into pre-term labor and that fetus popped out the medical professionals would be under a legal obligation to provide life sustaining treatment, however if you made the choice to have it forcibly removed from the 'ol uteroo, they would not. Bit of a dichotomy here.
ReplyDeleteHi Criss, as a pro-lifer, I'd like to congratulate you on this wonderful wonderful event. When my daughter was born 3 years ago, it was the most wonderful moment in my life till then. Now every day she looks up and hugs me or tells me that she loves me is an even more wonderful day. What a joy. I will be praying for this healthy happy beautiful baby to continue to grow strong, as well as you and Fred.
ReplyDeleteI hope you won't mind me asking a few questions since we obviously differ on the abortion issue. Perhaps the respectful dialog will be helpful to both of us. The key question I have is, at what point do you think your fetus becomes a baby? When is it a person? Are those different things? I'm sure that you don't think it's only when it comes out through the birth canal. If you do, can I ask why? And whatever that point was, what "made" it human at that point? I'm sure we both are pro-life in many ways (i.e. don't kill innocent people), in fact you may also share my belief that we should not kill ANY life just for fun or just because we feel like it. Even animals. So in that case, whose burden of proof is it to prove that the fetus isn't human? The one who wishes to kill the thing that maybe human or the one that wishes to save it? I would say that the one that wishes to kill the unknown thing is the one who must prove morally, scientifically, ethically that what they wish to kill is 100% not human. And that they are not killing it for convenience.
But right now congratulations. Your life will never be the same, and you won't be able to imagine why life had any real meaning before this great event. It did, but it will be hard to believe that when you look into those pretty eyes that depend so much upon you for shelter, food, protection and most of all love. Those eyes though undeveloped, still do right now. God bless you three. Be safe.
I have a post on my website www.NoBlindFaith.com that argues why the Fetus is human without using the Bible or any religious arguments. I'd enjoy any feedback on it.
http://www.noblindfaith.com/sermon/Abortion_Response_Combined_Handout.pdf
We also lost one of our daughters 9 days after she was born. Our blog and response to that is here www.NeilMammen.WordPress.com
First of all, I want to thank all of you, and Jill Stanek especially, for upping my page views today. Thanks for adding to my ad revenue! Now I can make a generous donation to Pledge-a-Protester!
ReplyDelete@Neil, as I mentioned in the post, the fetus becomes a baby when it's born. That's the way science states it. Just like an infant is not a toddler is not a teenager, a fetus is not yet a baby. Once it becomes a baby, I will gladly call it that. Once it starts walking and toddling all over my house, I will no longer call it an infant, I'll call it a toddler. Once it turns 13, I'll call it a teenager, not an infant (regardless of how infantile its rebellious teenage behavior is).
As to when it becomes "a person" I can't tell you. I would probably say when it starts to develop a personality. But I think what you're trying to ask is answered here: http://blog.crisswrites.com/2009/02/beginning-of-life-when-it-is.html
This is a wanted child. This fetus is my child. I want this fetus to live. I have wanted this fetus since before my husband and I were married. I want two more fetuses after this one. I have chosen to want this fetus, and this fetus IS MY CHILD. It's not a baby yet, though, because it's still a fetus. That's not an insult, and I don't get why you, and other anti-choicers, think it is.
I know having this child is going to change my life, but I do have to argue with you that I "won't be able to imagine why life had any real meaning before." I don't know what your life was like before your wife birthed a child, but I can assure you my life has been full and meaningful. I'm sorry you did not find worth in your life and felt the need to have a child before you could find worth within yourself.
@C, please, for the love of everything you find holy, PLEASE do not refer to my child as "unborn." I'm growing a fetus, not a zombie. It eats protein, not brains.
Seriously, the use of the term "unborn" is a really poor choice on y'all's part. Kind of like the Tea Party talking about "teabagging." Unfortunate.
Oh, and I've had one abortion. I hope all goes well with this pregnancy, and I do not have to face that choice again. Freddy and I would both be crushed if that happened; however we both agree my life trump's the fetus's potential life.
Pregnancy books are kind of evil, but also kind of like that car accident you can't take your eyes off of as you go by it. I never found an especially good one, although "Pregnancy Sucks" is funny and relatively horror-story free. "My Mother Wears Combat Boots" was one I really liked too, although that's sort of more pregnancy/new parenthood.
ReplyDeleteI thought I wanted to have three midgets once too...then my second was born lol.
Congratulations again darling! :)
I like how you call your developing child "it" rather than "he or she", considering he or she does in fact possess a gender at this point. The human growing inside you is either a "she" or a "he", just as the one that you killed did.
ReplyDeleteWhat is so much more special about this individual that you are allowing it to live and calling it "wanted" vs. the one you killed?
I'd like to point put that the fetus/baby wording, as Criss is using it, is actually the correct medical terminology. In the first trimester, once the egg has been fertilized, it becomes an embryo. If several things go well, that embryo implants in the uterus and the pregnancy continues. Sometime between 10-13weeks I think (forget the actual date) the embryo becomes a fetus. When it is born, it becomes a baby.
ReplyDeleteThose are the correct terms, according to medicine and science. You may not like them or use them as such, but Criss is certainly not a monster for choosing to use them in this way.
BTW, as a mother to an adorable 2 year old boy whom I love dearly, I very much remember what my life was like before he was born, and very much believe that it had meaning. It now has added meaning, as I raise a human being, but my life also continues to have meaning besides/in addition to his existence.
Still looking for the anything with the word fetus on it in the greeting card section.......
ReplyDelete@Anonymous
ReplyDeleteActually medical professionals in most places are prohibited from saving a fetus/baby born before the 22nd week http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6156118/Premature-baby-dies-as-guidelines-say-he-was-born-too-early-to-save.html
The reason being is the fetus/baby is not developed enough to have a statistical probability of a reasonable quality of life even with medical help. This is why the cut off for choosing to end a pregnancy is 24 weeks. I've seen babies in the NICU that were born at a lb or less between 23-28 weeks and many of them suffer, some don't make it even with help b/c they aren't fully developed enough. Had they not been born early/yet at that stage they'd still be medically known as a fetus. What a mother chooses to refer to her gender unknown, hopefully future baby is her business... if she wants to use a medical term like fetus vs baby vs unborn child or offspring who really cares? Isn't it more important that we love the children that ARE born?
@Criss
Congrats! I'm sure you'll do fine. You're clearly educated and research/think things through before acting, so you shouldn't be confused with those that take such an important decision lightly.
@haters
Since I can't wait to have children I hope I'd never have a reason to even consider having to make that difficult choice, but regardless, I'm glad women have the option to do it safely and legally. However, I'm also not against re-educating those that this choice and current legal right lightly as it were the same as taking the pill or even the morning after pill.
Fetus is a medically correct term. True. Who uses it but proaborts?? Will it be used socially by Criss?
ReplyDeleteIn 4 more months
WalMart Associate "When is your baby due?"
Criss "It's a fetus."
Criss's sister "I am so excited for the baby!"
Criss "It's a fetus."
Friend "So, did you have fun at the baby shower?"
Criss "It's a fetus."
Doctor "How are you and the baby doing?"
Criss "It's a fetus."
Ultrasound Tech "This is your baby."
Criss "It's a fetus."
Freddy during labor "We are going to meet our baby."
Criss "It's a fetus."
Nurse "Push. Your baby is almost here."
Criss "It's a fetus."
Baby "Waaaah!"
Criss "To think you were only a fetus just moments ago!!"
Hi Criss,
ReplyDeletecongrats!
Remember, you are already a mother, mother of a dead baby that you killed.
Stacy
I think "fetus" is the Latin term for baby or offspring, isn't it? So, really, you're basically saying the same thing.
ReplyDeleteChris, congratulations on becoming pregnant with your fetus, offspring, child, baby, etc... So, just out of curiosity, if I'm understanding the reading of your post, if you're "fetus" is not going to be "live" until October, is it dead right now?
"BTW, as a mother to an adorable 2 year old boy whom I love dearly, I very much remember what my life was like before he was born, and very much believe that it had meaning. "
ReplyDeleteMarcy,
The 'it' who had meaning was a he or a she many months before you delivered. Pick up a biology book and find out for yourself.
Pamela
Criss, congrats on your pregnancy. From one pro-choice, had an abortion woman to another, you rock. Don't let the haters get you down! I hope you have a quiet, comfortable pregnancy and a relatively painless labour.
ReplyDelete@Pamela, learn to read. The "it" in Marcy's sentence is her life, not her son. Whom she clearly refers to as a "he." Because she already knows his gender.
ReplyDelete@Stacy, well, you're just a doll. Thanks for stopping by! Continue to spread that cheer.
@C, I don't shop at Wal-Mart, I disagree with their business "ethics." But when people ask me when the baby is due, I'll tell them -- the baby is born on the due date, the fetus gestates between weeks 11 and 40. (Why is this concept so hard to grasp??)
If you take a look at my Facebook and Twitter updates, you'll see I refer to the fetus as "fetus." When it was just a zygote, Freddy and I referred to it as "zygote." Or Ziggy, actually. (Now we call it Peanut.) When Freddy and I talk about the fetus, we caal it "fetus." So, yeah, pretty much what you described.
As to who use the word "fetus"... uh, people who know what it means? Medical professionals? My OB/GYN? It's not a made up word. Follow Pamela's advice and pick up a biology textbook.
@K, thanks! :)
Re: "What is so much more special about this individual that you are allowing it to live and calling it "wanted" vs. the one you killed?"
What is more special about my Uncle Greg, who was born alive [and is still alive] vs. his twin, who was stillborn? Why did God allow one to live but not the other?
What is more special about my fetus, still going at 11 weeks, vs. Rebecca's (see her comment above), which miscarried at nine weeks? Or vs. my friend Lacey's anembryonic pregnancy?
What is more special about any child vs. the child born in Coppell a few days ago, with a heart condition for which he was denied health care and will probably die in a few days since the parents cannot afford to pay for the operation?
@C, "Still looking for the anything with the word fetus on it in the greeting card section......."
Seriously?? Are you sure that is the argument you want to make??
Tell me, since we're taking Hallmark as an authority on medicine, science, and whatelsehaveyou, did you happen to find any "Happy Conception Day!" cards? Or did they all say "Happy Birthday!"??
You know what else? I was looking at my driver's license, and guess what -- to calculate my age, you know, how long I have been ALIVE, they use my BIRTH date, not my conception date. HOW ODD.
@InsaneArtGurl, thanks! :)
@GimliGirl, thanks! :)
ReplyDeleteI've read my share of scary birth stories, but Freddy just came home with Ina May's GUIDE TO CHILDBIRTH and I'm very much enjoying reading HAPPY birth/labor stories!
It's a fantastic book I've heard a lot of good things about. If/when I become pregnant a third time, (and it's actually a wanted pregnancy!) I'll def. pick it up.
ReplyDelete"What is more special about my Uncle Greg, who was born alive [and is still alive] vs. his twin, who was stillborn? Why did God allow one to live but not the other?"
ReplyDeleteThere is a difference bewteen a murder and someone who dies from natural causes. You delibratly killed your baby.
"When it is born, it becomes a baby."
wow! God you people are evil. The devil owns you.
Pamela
Re: "What is so much more special about this individual that you are allowing it to live and calling it "wanted" vs. the one you killed?"
ReplyDeleteWhat is more special about my Uncle Greg, who was born alive [and is still alive] vs. his twin, who was stillborn? Why did God allow one to live but not the other?
What is more special about my fetus, still going at 11 weeks, vs. Rebecca's (see her comment above), which miscarried at nine weeks? Or vs. my friend Lacey's anembryonic pregnancy?
What is more special about any child vs. the child born in Coppell a few days ago, with a heart condition for which he was denied health care and will probably die in a few days since the parents cannot afford to pay for the operation?
Answering questions with questions, how cute. Can I get a real, straight answer please? Also, note that I said nothing about god because I do not believe in him/her/it, nor did I mention anything about healthcare, but that was a nice little rabbit hole in which to jump. Answer...do you have it?
I'm sorry, Anonymous, I really do apologize for writing something that would require thought to process.
ReplyDeleteLet me spell it out: N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
Sh!t happens. What makes one person more "special" than another? Nothing. Timing, luck, chance.
November 1999 was not the right time, not the right parents. February 2010 was. I hope chance, luck smile on me this time and let everything go the way I hope it does.
(PS -- I made no mention of God either. Why did you bring Him up? Regarding health care... we're talking about pregnancy. How is health care not already part of the conversation??)
OH, I have carried quite a few babies in my day. Never referred to them socially as a fetus. It's dumb and I think you know it.
ReplyDeleteOne of the first things one does when they discriminates against another human being, is to stick a label on that other human being to dehumanize them and use it as a description to justify the discriminatory actions.
ReplyDeleteAn unborn human being is medically identified as a "fetus". This title makes them no less a human being (evident in many Embryology textbooks), and used medically does not dehumanize. Yet this title is used by those not in the medical field (as yourself) in order to justify inhumane actions against those that are labelled such, because they are, after all, only "fetuses" and not "real babies", therefore, not "real human beings".
Those that support discrimination against fetuses use this term not medically, but rather to dehumanize the unborn human being.
In this blog, it is clear that Ms. Criss, you are scared of the pain you may experience if you lose your unborn child before (s)he is born, so you have disassociated yourself and "hope" that some day you may have a baby, when you have your child growing within you! You will never be as close to your child as you are now, and, from fear, you are losing out on an incredible bond.
This is how you have also dealt with the death of your previous unborn child, by disassociating yourself from him/her. It was simply a "fetus" with no worth, unless you granted it worth by "wanting" it. Since your previous unborn child was "unwanted" it had no value...it was only a fetus after all. Yet your previous unborn child which you disposed of, tho not lightly I will assume, and only after much consideration, was a unique individual with qualities and talents which was never seen on this earth before, and will never be seen again (April is Abortion Recovery Month btw)
Though I am sure you love your current fetus as much as you are able to, you are only loving your "want" of it. It is not actually your child you are loving. If you did not "want" this unborn child, you would again have an abortion, even tho the Little One would be no different. The only difference is your "want". Therefore you do not love this fetus at all, you only love your "want" of it.
You are limiting yourself and the bonding you can have with your child by labeling him/her as a fetus and placing all it's value of worth on your personal choice of "want" or "unwant". You are not acknowledging his/hers full humanity which exists just as much today as it will on the day of his/her birth.
I wish you well. I hope that your desire to love the fully human fully alive "wanted" growing within you will overcome your fear of painful loss. For not only are you depriving yourself, you are depriving your unborn child of his/hers mother's love. Do you think this makes no difference? This child will never be as close to you after his/her birth as (s)he is at this very moment. At the moment of birth a seperation occurs, and the bonding which you could be giving him/her right now, will forever be lost, never to be experienced.
But then again, maybe you do not wish to be that close to your children. Maybe such closeness and intimacy scares you.
As one who has lost children, I assure you the pain is worth the love and fully accepting the unique creation each human being is from the moment of their conception. The greater loss is not acknowledging the child, dismissing them as rather an 'incomplete person' thereby never bonding even tho they are not yet born.
That is a loss of choice, but not the choice of your child.
I beg you to reconsider your view of your Little One. Those that are the most wise, the most knowledgeable, fully recognize their foolishness and ignorance and are open to becoming more wise and knowledgeable
I missed the memo on when we started letting Hallmark dictate our linguistic choices...
ReplyDeletePeople, seriously. If you really think abortion is so evil and wrong, then THAT's what you should be arguing. Not whether calling a fetus its correct medical term is "dumb" or not. And BTW YES a fetus becomes a baby when it is born. That does not make anyone evil, but in fact accurate in their language used. It's basic biology (or do you not believe in that, either?) You are making yourselves and your cause look like irrational idiots.
And while you're at it, grow up and at least out down a NAME rather than replying anonymously. I mean, c'mon.
respectfully posted
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry, Anonymous, I really do apologize for writing something that would require thought to process.
ReplyDeleteI'm perfectly capable of processing, thanks. It's just that I don't have time to sift through you euphemisms and b.s., and want a direct, concise answer. I don't think that's too much to ask. I do however think your verbal do-si-do in answering my question speaks volumes as to the mental gymnastics you're having to subject yourself to in order to cope with having had offspring A. killed and allowing offspring B. to live and hoping he/she thrives.
Sh!t happens. What makes one person more "special" than another? Nothing. Timing, luck, chance.
Which is it? Nothing, or "timing, luck, [or] chance"? Typically when evaluating side-by-side 2 individual humans' net worth, the mother isn't waiting in the wings to kill the one deemed as "not special", so I'm afraid the severity of the situation would dictate that you clarify this for me.
(PS -- I made no mention of God either. Why did you bring Him up?
As a matter of fact, you did:
Why did God allow one to live but not the other?
I can't really think of why you'd include this here unless you are religious and think yourself to be on-par with your god in decisions of live vs. death in regards to your children...other than that I can't really understand why you would mention it.
Re: healthcare-As you stated previously yourself, women birthed children for centuries and even thousands of years sans healthcare, so I fail to see how it is relevant other than to try and bait me into an unrelated debate. Nice try though.
I think this sums it up well:
I hope chance, luck smile on me this time and let everything go the way I hope it does.
This is always all about YOU. Your child is so lucky to have a mother seemingly so concerned for the well-being of her offspring...*cough*
Pamela--
ReplyDeleteI appreciate the tone of attempted respect towards Criss (which has been lacking in all the previous pro-life comments). However, let me assure you, as Criss's sister, knowing how excited she is already to have this fetus growing inside her body, that there is no lack of bonding there.
I will also say that while there may be important bonding that may or may not happen in utero, I believe the much more important bonding occurs at birth and afterwards. Many mothers describe falling in love with their babies at first sight, when they are BORN. I myself did not feel a bond with my son (even though I loved him and yes even called him my baby while pregnant with him) until after he and I had spent a few months together, when I could actually see him, hold him, nurse him, look into his eyes, etc. THAT was my bonding. I suppose we may have missed out on the intense pre-birth bonding you speak of... but I don't see how we are thew worse for it, as I adore him to pieces and he seems awfully fond of me.
I can never know the pain you have felt at losing your children (even if i undergo a similar experience, it will be different for me as for you because we are different people). I can also never fully know what Criss's experience has been, what she has felt, etc in her life. I would ask you, with all due respect, to assume the same of yourself for her, to not assume you know how she felt about her abortion or this pregnancy. Do not try to guess what she has or has not felt for either fetus. As you yourself said, try to acknowledge your own foolishness in such an assumption.
K at 5:15,
ReplyDeleteHave you read Angela Jackson's Twitter of her RU486 abortion? Her documentation of it probably did more harm than good for the pro-abortion anti/life camp. And she thought she was only going to be "inconvenienced" for a day or so from her medical abortion.
Anonymous-- how easily you brush aside a baby who was born, but is being left to die a preventable death. Try to at least be consistent about this "pro-life" stuff. You should be for supporting ALL life, not just that of fetuses living inside a uterus.
ReplyDeleteI myself did not feel a bond with my son (even though I loved him and yes even called him my baby while pregnant with him) until after he and I had spent a few months together, when I could actually see him, hold him, nurse him, look into his eyes, etc.
ReplyDeleteSuch is the mental condition typical in those who support legalized abortion. What's your point?
As someone with a friend who corrected me, "It's not a baby, it's a fetus," when she was pregnant, I don't see why antis obsess with the word.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, it's just a word. Baby isn't even a proper medical word- it's infant or newborn after birth. When I think "baby" I think of my cats. Maybe, from now on, when an anti says "baby" I'm going to assume they're talking about cats.
Criss- I suggest you just ignore antis. They've shown here, over and over, that they hate women for aborting and they hate women for carrying to term. Surround yourself with friends and loved ones and just enjoy your pregnancy!
What are you talking about, Marcy? Did I say I saw it as acceptable to end or have ended the life of one's already born children, but not those in utero? Please show me where I said that...
ReplyDeleteYes, play the HATE card.
ReplyDeleteI do not hate post abortive women. I am one.
The fact that some women regret their abortions does not negate the fact that most do NOT.
ReplyDeleteCongrats, Criss- both on the pregnant and on having a fab sister in Marcy.
"I haz a fetus in my belly!"
ReplyDeleteAre you sure the fetus is in your belly? I think you might be confused about your body parts. My fetuses were never in my belly. But maybe your new fetus is safer in your belly then the place where your last fetus tried his/her best to continue to grow.
No, I don't hate you. I just want you to stop killing and supporting the killing of people. Please. Pretty please. I'm begging you.
Rachelsvineyard.com
Says K - Actually medical professionals in most places are prohibited from saving a fetus/baby born before the 22nd week -
ReplyDeleteWell, I don't know where you are from, but the standard of care in the medical profession is that after twenty weeks (mind you, this is a calculated date, no one knows the exact time of conception) delivery of a fetus is not classified as a miscarriage. Therefore, every effort is made to stop pre-term labor. If a baby is delivered AFTER 20 weeks, life sustaining efforts are attempted, d/t possible miscalculation of gestation, and we all know that the age of viability continues to decrease. So enough of that. I don't have a problem calling a baby in the womb a fetus, nor do I have a problem calling a fetus a baby - so I'm not going to quibble over medical/scientific terms - it's the proaborts that use the term fetus because it sounds less like you are ending the life of a baby (sorry, they are one in the same). Heretofore, I haven't found anyone who can answer a couple of questions I have - you haven't succeeded either.Why don't you give it another try, and answer directly the following:
When is it ok to end the life of a baby/fetus and for what reason?
And in a late term abortion done by the 'partial birth' procedure, is the head still a fetus and the body a baby?
Zoe,
ReplyDeleteGolly gee whiz do you have THAT backwards!
The horrifying abortion stories of sepsis, infertility, perforated uterus', forced and coerced abortions, aborted babies born alive, sexual abuse by the abortionist, and death for the mother are NOT REFUTED by someone saying, "I don't regret my abortion."
Now, back to the It's Not a Baby Until I Say It's a Baby Show.
Miss Criss, as a feminist who supported reproductive rights before AND after having two babies, I applaud you. Jill Stanek never promoted MY pregnancy on her blog! I hope she sends you some hand-knit booties. Seriously, all the best.
ReplyDeleteShannon,
ReplyDeleteWhen did your babies become babies??
WE are all glad that you are allowing this baby to live. We are sad that your other baby did not get the right to life. Jill is pointing out the idiocy of Criss' statement. Magically becoming a baby at birth.
Hey Shannon,
ReplyDeleteWas over on your blog and noticed how you referred to your child as an "impossibly difficult infant."
I've found in my life that mothers who talk like this about their children are almost always "choicers" (the politically correct word for murderers/murderer supporters). Hard-core choicers are typically narcissists and see other humans as difficult and burdens. This is because you do not respect the life of ALL humans.
I bet when your child grows up he/she will be explaining you as "an impossibly difficult" mother.
Don't be jealous of Criss. You might make Jill's Wall of Shame someday too. . . . you've already made mine.
Nothin' like a group of self-respecting, intelligent, prochoice mothers to piss of the antichoicers.
ReplyDeleteThis whole "women who don't immediately bond with their fetus or love their newborn at first sight MUST be prochoice!" argument is new to me. Bet it'd shock the hell out of my antichoice friend who didn't immediately fall in love with any of her three kids. And I was the one who was one of those gooey-eyed love at first sight moms both times.
Also, Marcy, I am now in love with you. Can you be my sister too???
Hello there Insane One,
ReplyDeleteWe are not talking about bonding or immediately "feeling" love for others. We are talking about the murdering of other humans and the right for all of us in this world to be free of violence.
You don't piss me off. Your acts of killing humans or supporting their killings does PISS me off. As for your self-respecting, intelligent, pro-murder self, I just have pity for you.
Would you be my sister?
Dear antis,
ReplyDeleteWhat is your goal?
What is your purpose coming over here and harassing me and my commenters?
According to Pamela, I'm already a failure as a mother and I will never bond with my child because I haven't felt this bond since conception and I don't walk around clutching my abdomen singing lullabies to it. So, do you all suggest I grab a wire coat-hanger and stick it up my cervix?
Do you think your hate and ignorance is going to make me change my mind, and "regret" something I did over a decade ago, something I am obviously not ashamed of because I based this whole blog on it and on talking about it?
Ar you just over here trying to make me feel "bad"? Are you expecting me to start crying, or something?
Not that your thought processes (if I can use the words so lightly) have ever made sense to me, but I'm just curious.
All you have accomplished is to prove, once again, that the anti-choice side is about hate and ignorance. (And cowardice, since half of you can't even put your name to your comments.)
I can't even decipher half your comments -- like the one who told me "it's not a frog you have there." Who said anything about frogs?? I'm talking about a fetus -- a mammal. Frogs are amphibians; they go from egg to tadpole to frog.
Unless "frog" was a slur for "French," which almost kind of maybe perhaps makes sense, since "babies come from Paris," so I guess that would make fetuses French? But, really, y'all shouldn't be using slurs like that to refer to the French. They're very nice people.
And you all are fixating on me using the word "fetus" instead of "baby," but then one of you gets all bent out of shape because I used the word "belly"? So, what, I have to call it a "baby" but I can't say "my pregnant belly," I have to say "my pregnant uterus"? When people say, "Your belly is getting so big" I have to say, "It's not my belly, it's my uterus"? (And, people, I'm no doctor so maybe I'm way off on this... but is "belly" the anatomically-correct scientific name for an internal organ? I was not aware of that. I thought it was, like, slang for the part of your body between your chest and your crotch. Who knew!)
Look, antis, I appreciate the attention. It's been fun. I love a battle of wits as much as the next gal, but it's really not fair to engage when your opponent is unarmed. Please feel free to keep leaving comments (I welcome the chuckles), but I have better things to do than argue with walls.
To the beautiful, loving pro-choicers,
You all rock! Pro-choice moms are my fave. (And, yes, Marcy rocks. And you haven't even seen her little boy!!! *proud auntie squee*)
Criss
ReplyDeleteAnd what is yours? Pro-aborts spew the same hatred and ignorance (there's my straw man argument).
We don't expect you to cry, because obviously you don't feel regret, remorse, or sadness about what you did. Agreed.
You obviously haven't the sense to realize that when you discuss a polarizing issue with inflammatory rhetoric that you are inviting commentary from the opposite point of view, so why are you suprised when we comment? Duh.
You portray yourself as an intellectual, but don't understand the hyperbolic questions like "What do you have in there, a frog?" because you staunchly (once again baiting the opposite point of view) refuse to refer to your fetus as a baby (even though I don't have a problem with that.....it just seems silly).
Yes, you do love the attention. That sums it up precisely. Your nervousness at becoming a mother is warranted - while I don't understand why you would worry about your fetus at any stage before he/she is born, because after all you aren't bonding with it, and if it has a neural tube defect you can happily and safely procure an abortion (even a late term one) - you certainly have reason to be nervous after it is born because as any good mother knows it's not about getting attention, it's about giving it.
Just stopped by to see if a pro-abort could ever answer the questions straight, or if you would spew the same crap all your other cohorts do. Found the latter to be the case (as always).
Good luck! (that's for your fetus)
And if signing my name mattered, I would.
Paula @ 9:25PM, great post.
ReplyDeleteJust out of curiosity, why is it that I've never heard those that endorse abortion comment or say, "I killed my zygote or I killed my embryo, or I killed my fetus", etc. It's always "I had an abortion or I terminated my pregnancy." Because deep down in their (the pro/abort pro/choice camp) souls (or if they don't believe in a soul, dare I write, their psyche) they know it's wrong and have to use euphemisms to justify their "choice" in killing their zygote, embryo, or fetus.
"... when you discuss a polarizing issue with inflammatory rhetoric..."
ReplyDeleteUm, I announced I was pregnant.
I didn't realize announcing a planned and wanted pregnancy was "discussing a polarizing issue."
Or that medically-accurate language was "inflammatory rhetoric."
But then again, I like to use words to say what they mean. So that must be where our disconnect is happening.
Telling me my fetus is "not a frog" is not an exaggeration (that's what "hyperbole" means, by the way), it's a nonsensical jump with no logic behind it. When you exaggerate, you take something and move it up or down the scale, you don't throw out the scale and grab a totally different one.
Calling abortion "murder" is hyperbole, an exaggeration: you are taking a fetus that was alive inside the mother, because of the mother, and by removing it from its life source you are ending its "living" status. It is far from "murder" since abortion is legal and the fetus is not a separate person (if it were, it could live outside the uterus without needing to mooch off the mother), but at least we're on the same scale. Just like some people call euthanasia "murder," just because a life is ending. It's an exaggeration, hyperbole; taking something and adding (or subtracting) intensity.
Calling my fetus a frog is just silly. If anything, you could have tried calling it a fish, since it has gills or breathes fluid or something. At least there's one connection there.
If you want to ask me a question, I'll answer it. As I've answered the other questions. The fact that you don't like my answers does not mean I haven't answered, it means we disagree.
"And if signing my name mattered, I would."
It does matter. Signing your name shows you're not afraid of standing up for what you believe. It shows you stand behind your words. It shows you're not afraid to put your name to your words.
Why do you feel the need to hide?
Happymom,
ReplyDeleteMy brother had a brain tumor removed. A year later my mom had a hysterectomy because the doctors suspected cervical cancer.
The brain tissue in my brother's brain and the cervix and uterus in my mother were both alive, living cells, inside their bodies. Since the brain tumor had cancerous cells, those cells had their own DNA (their DNA had mutated, which is what made them reproduce abnormally creating the tumor).
My brother does not say he "killed his brain" nor does my mother say she "killed" her uterus and cervix. They just removed them.
Friends of mine who've had miscarriages don't say they killed their babies, either (even though their bodies expelled the fetus/embryo). They don't tell people, "My fetus died," they generally say, "I had a miscarriage."
I did not "kill" anything. I had something removed. That procedure is called "having an abortion." So what's what I call it.
Had the doctor removed that 13-week fetus, it would have died as soon as it stopped being connected to my body, just like my brother's brain tissue died as soon as the doctors "viciously" cut it from my brother's brain. I didn't "kill" it, it dies on its own because it couldn't survive on its own outside my body.
Just like all those people above choose to not use the word "fetus" to refer to a fetus, I choose not to use the word "kill" when referring to a medical procedure.
I'm sure this makes me a horrible person in your eyes, and if you read this comment you're going to call me evil and sick and horrible (sorry to break it to ya... somebody beat you to it).
That's your opinion, and you have a right to have it.
When people eat steak, do they say, "This steak is really good"? Or do they say, "This cruelly slaughtered cow is really good"?
(We all choose the words that make us happy. Not just pro-choicers.)
Criss,
ReplyDeleteWhen I had each of my 4 babies, they could not live independently of me. They needed MY milk to survive, and with my first 2 babies, they needed a bottle of formula. So, your comment about the fetus not being able to survive outside of the uterus without mooching off of mom, is ridiculous. What newborn can survive independently without mom, dad, or some guardian to help sustain his/her life? Are you going to let your newborn have any milk and/or formual to drink when it becomes "live" after his/her body comes out of your birth canal?
Happymom,
ReplyDeleteNewborns need a caregiver. Any person can be that caregiver: dad, a nurse, grandma, a nun at the convent or the fireman at the station who found the baby wrapped in a blanket on the stoop.
A newborn can survive lying in a crib alone. Eventually it will need SOMEONE to feed it. But that does not need to be the biological mother. How do you think adoptions work?
Criss,
ReplyDeleteI suspect, by your reference to your abortion as "I didn't kill it" or "I had something removed", is your attempt at de-humanizing the offspring you aborted and this is why you refer to the offspring as "it" and "something removed". Are you actually going to compare removing a cancerous tumor to removing a fetus? Seems like comparing apples and oranges. It's as if you're equating your abortion to extracting a decayed tooth.
"Are you actually going to compare removing a cancerous tumor to removing a fetus?"
ReplyDeleteNo, I'm not "going to." I did already. Was that unclear?
I said the "Frog" comment was hyperbolic and there is an essence of exaggeration, but perhaps not the best choice in categorizing (oh well).
ReplyDeleteCalling an unplanned, unintended pregnancy that you endure because you are grown up enough to realize it was the consequence of your own actions "forced pregnancy" as some of your ilk do is also hyperbolic.
Calling a baby a fetus and saying you won't bond with it before it is born is moronic as you soon will discover.
When most people annouce their pregnancy they don't qualify - "The pro choiceer is pregnant". Here I go making the obvious statement for the benefit of your readers - you do purposely use rhetoric to coax the people who don't agree with you to comment - otherwise, what is the point? If people already know how you feel, why do you need to keep blogging about it? It's called promoting a cause, and if everyone agreed with you, you wouldn't have a cause to blog about. Therefore, your rhetoric is used to create the debate. Some people do this with reason and logic, some do it with inflammatory, illogical arguments. This blog doesn't contain inflammatory rhetoric? Well then neither does Jill Stanek's.
Not calling a fetus a baby is silly. Yes, it is a fetus, yes it is a baby....there is no medical discrepancy in calling it a baby, unless of course you have a vested reason for not calling it a baby. The term "baby" is not medically inaccurate (see #5 of definition but don't take my word for it, head for dictionary.com)
ba·by /ˈbeɪbi/ Show Spelled [bey-bee] Show IPA noun,plural-bies, adjective, verb,-bied, -by·ing.
–noun
1.an infant or very young child.
2.a newborn or very young animal.
3.the youngest member of a family, group, etc.
4.an immature or childish person.
5.a human fetus.
I proudly stand up for what I believe in, as anybody who KNOWS me can tell you. So if I tell you my name is Sue, what exactly does that mean to you? No more than you, calling yourself Criss, means to me. But since I told you, does that mean I'm not a coward anymore? :D
So here are some questions, that you probably won't answer directly according to your definitions.
Partial birth abortive procedure - Because the body is delivered, and the head is not, is the body a baby, and the head a fetus? Are they ending the life of a baby or a fetus, or half- baby, half-fetus?
In your sidebar it says:
Be warned: Criss is proud to call herself a bleeding-heart, tree-hugging, pro-choice, hippie, Christian, socialist, [feminist?] liberal woman.
Next question - Since you call yourself a Christian - i.e. "a follower of Christ" I'm am making the large assumption that you, like all Christians, agree that the Bible is the word of God, and the authoritative answer to issues pertaining to the Christian way of life. Based on that, please provide me book, chapter, verse that supports your dogmatic position that abortion is acceptable and right as an alternative to pregnancy in any case. There really is no need to dump your dogma, here - just the label 'Christian' (and please, everyone who thinks they are proabort and Christian, don't jump on this).
I enjoy giving you attention.....so I'm glad you love it. I liked this post - noticed it didn't receive comment (it wasn't made by me, by the way)
Anonymous said...
Watching mental gymnastics of a pregnant person/mother trying to justify abortion is almost as fun as watching the actual gymnasts in the Olympics, and just as much bending is required.
So keep it comin' :D
9:06 AM
Hello there Too Scared to Claim an Identity,
ReplyDeleteIf you weren't talking about mother-child bonding, than I clearly wasn't talking to you. Funny how that works.
Why is it that antichoicers call themselves proLIFE, but THEY're always talking about murder and violence? This murder obsession can't be healthy.
Sorry I keep feeding your AntiChoice Trolls Criss...they're just so cute when they think they have a moral or logical leg to stand on.
Awesome. Wrote a response to Sue, and Blogger ate it. Do I really have to write ALL THAT AGAIN???
ReplyDelete*puke*
(Blogger still won't let me post the comment. Let's try it in sections, shall we?)
ReplyDeleteSue,
"Calling an unplanned, unintended pregnancy that you endure because you are grown up enough to realize it was the consequence of your own actions "forced pregnancy" as some of your ilk do is also hyperbolic. "
If that is what we referred to when we say "forced pregnancy" it still wouldn't be hyperbole, it would be a lie.
In your example, the woman has chosen to carry the pregnancy to term because she feels it is her "duty." If the woman chooses to do this, it is HER CHOICE. Nobody is forcing her to do anything.
When we talk about "forced pregnancy" we refer to the women who DO NOT want to carry the pregnancy to term, but are FORCED to do so by someone else, which is what the anti-choice side aims to do by making abortion illegal and inaccessible. When one person tells another person what to do, against that person's will, that is FORCING her to do something. That's what the verb "to force" means.
"...saying you won't bond with it before it is born..."
I never said I won't bond with it until it's born. Pamela said that; she said I'm a bad mother because I have not bonded already with my fetus.
I'm sure I will bond with it, probably as soon as I start feeling it. Right now it just feels like gas. Maybe when I start showing? Dunno. I hope so, though.
"When most people annouce their pregnancy they don't qualify - "The pro choiceer is pregnant". "
I do pride myself in not being "most people."
I am a pro-choicer. That's kind of what this blog is about. I also liked the alliteration.
The title was also a reference to that week's episode of The Good Wife, where the other lawyers tried to use the fact that the mother was a pro-choice activist to deny life-saving surgery to her fetus. The whole episode was about a pro-choicer being pregnant and how that affected the case (or, apparently, her medical rights). I was going to blog about that episode the next day, but 1st-trimester lethargy hit me and I didn't blog about a bunch of things I've wanted to blog about.
Calling my use of the term "pro-choicer" "inflammatory rhetoric" IS an example of hyperbole. Pro-choice is not a loaded term, it's the word used to describe this side of the issue. It's no more inflammatory than "pro-lifer."
If my post title had been something like, "I'm pregnant so all you anti-choice woman-haters can SUCK IT and F*** YOU 'cuz you're stupid idiots" THEN you could accuse me of "instigating" something. But "the pro-choicer is pregnant"? No, sorry.
"If people already know how you feel, why do you need to keep blogging about it?"
Newsflash: this is a blog. The definition of which is "narcissism in electronic form." I keep blogging about it because I like writing about it. It helps me organize my thoughts. I like hearing comments from like-minded individuals. I like meeting new people who share my ideas. And, yes, I do like the attention. Just like you do -- otherwise why would you keep commenting? You keep coming back because I keep feeding you.
Sue, part 2:
ReplyDelete"The term "baby" is not medically inaccurate..."
I never said it was. I have no issue with other people calling their fetuses "a baby." I choose to call my fetus "a fetus," which is not medically inaccurate either. What I don't get it why YOU are so hung up on what I call my fetus.
"So if I tell you my name is Sue, what exactly does that mean to you?"
It means a lot.
It's funny that someone who stuck on how important it is that I call my fetus "baby" doesn't get that the exact same concept applies to extra-uterine beings. When you give yourself a name, you become a person, not just an anonymous, angry troll on the Internet leaving rude comments on my blog with no way for me to track you or respond directly to you if I so choose (yes, I can leave a comment on my blog to you, but if you don't come back to the blog to read it, you'll never see my response).
When you give yourself a name and present yourself as a person, you invite me into a conversation with you. Those conversations are much more civil than the ones with anonymous trolls. When you give me your name, you are showing me respect -- you see me as a person, and will treat me as such, by giving me your name.
(By the way, my fetus has a name. It's "Peanut.")
Sue, part 3:
ReplyDeleteTo answer your "partial birth" abortion question:
Late-term abortions are pretty much always performed on wanted pregnancies that have gone wrong, and the mother has to make a heart-wrenching decision. I have not spoken personally to a mother who has had to go through this, but I will bet they would refer to those children as their baby. If you ask me what I would call it, I would call it what they mother calls it, her baby.
But that's not what you were asking. You were trying to make a snippy, "gotcha" kind of comment. Look, science and medicine tell us the fetus becomes a baby when it is born; having an abortion is not "being born." Once I had an anti tell me that the sucked-out pieces of tissue from my aborted fetus were "a baby" because the pieces of tissue were outside of my uterus. If you subscribe to that twisted line of thinking, I'm sorry. I have to respectfully disagree.
As I said in the post I linked to in an earlier comment (I'm too lazy to get the link again, since this is the second time I'm responding to this comment; scroll up): the child becomes a child, becomes a "baby," when the mother says it does.
About my Christian faith:
I have written plenty about this, feel free to look through the archives (use the tags below to help you) if you really are interested in finding out about my faith.
I believe the Bible is a guide. I cannot take the Bible word for word for word because (it contradicts itself too much, but mainly) it has spent too much time in the hands of flawed men, who have written and rewritten it to fit their own agendas. The Bible is an extremely old document that has been translated to and from too many languages for any intelligent person to truly take it word for word for word, without questioning any of it.
If you want me to give you Bible passages that speak of abortion, there's the "eye for an eye" passage in Exodus: if a man hits a pregnant woman in a way that causes her to miscarry but the woman is not harmed, the man must pay the husband a fine. If a man hits a pregnant woman in a way that causes the woman to die, then it's "life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth." This clearly states that the life of the fetus is not viewed as a "life," definitely not one that's worth more than a man's or a woman's.
There's also the passage in Numbers where if a woman is suspected of cheating on her husband (sleeping with another man), the husband must bring her to the priest who will make her drink "bitter water" which will cause her to miscarry/ abort, and also be barren for the rest of her days. That's church-sanctioned abortion, and against what the pro-choice side fights for, since that's a forced abortion (which is as bad as a forced pregnancy), but it shows abortion is nothing new, and it even used to be ordered by the church.
I know both of those passages are in the Old Testament, but there isn't anything in the New Testament that addresses this issue directly. Jesus calls us to "love one another" and "judge not, lest ye be judged." It's not my job to judge or condemn someone else's choices, my job is to love my brothers and sisters in Christ... which means I trust them to make their own decisions about their bodies. The first thing God gave us is Free Will, He trusted us enough to use it, I think He'd want us to trust each other as well.
Sue, part 4:
ReplyDelete"I liked this post - noticed it didn't receive comment (it wasn't made by me, by the way)"
I really had no idea what you meant by this (which post? The one you are commenting on? It's gotten more comments than any other post I've ever written!!) but then I thought maybe you were talking about the comment you copied at the end of your comment.
What did you want me to say about it? "Good use of hollow talking points"?
Or maybe, "I don't like watching gymnastics on the Olympics because I get so nervous for those poor little girls and I keep thinking they're going to fall and seriously hurt themselves and the judges are so mean to them!"?
Show me where I have bent or twisted and contradicted myself. Then I might have had something to comment ON.
I hate to break it to you, Criss, but you really need to brush up on your elementary biology. You can't seem to comprehend the difference between cells which compose an organism and the organism itself. Cancer would be an example of cells which compose an organism, even though the DNA is mutated and the cells of that organism grow in a detrimental manner. A fetal human is an entire organism-even though it is a developing organism-not just cells belonging to a greater being as a tumor of organ would be. But...whatever helps you sleep at night. I guess ignorance is bliss.
ReplyDeleteAnd since I'm not getting an answer I requested, I'll repost:
Sh!t happens. What makes one person more "special" than another? Nothing. Timing, luck, chance.
Which is it? Nothing, or "timing, luck, [or] chance"? Typically when evaluating side-by-side 2 individual humans' net worth, the mother isn't waiting in the wings to kill the one deemed as "not special", so I'm afraid the severity of the situation would dictate that you clarify this for me.
And as far as this goes:
What is your goal?...Do you think your hate and ignorance is going to make me change my mind, and "regret" something I did over a decade ago, something I am obviously not ashamed of because I based this whole blog on it and on talking about it?
No. You're missing the point, but I'm not surprised, EVERY supporter of legal abortion is. The biggest lesson in the world, which most people learn in or shortly after their teens, which no pro-choicer can seem to comprehend is this, and our basic point: THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU. THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU! We want the child you had killed to be recognized for the human he or she was, and afforded the proper respect and consideration he or she deserves/deserved, that he or she is not getting from you, the child's own mother. Many people are horrible human beings who don't actually have feelings one way or another toward any other human being. But MOST give other humans basic consideration required to keep from harming or killing their fellows even if only because the law mandates it. I don't care how other humans feel about me, but I want the consideration I deserve as a fellow human, even if only to not be killed. Same goes for those humans in utero.
The name's Anne, and I'm the one who originally posted the comment which included the remark about gymnastics and "what's so special about this kid as opposed to the one you had killed" comment, that you didn't answer (unless you count asking a bunch of other unrelated questions "answers", which I don't.) I wish I could say that I'm pleased to meet you, but I'm not. There ya go.
What was the name of your last fetus? Peanut for awhile but then Peanut Butter?
ReplyDeleteThere's nothing in the New Testament that directly addresses child porn either, Princess.
ReplyDeleteAnne,
ReplyDeleteWhat makes one person more "special" than another? Nothing.
What makes one person live and another die? One pregnancy survive and another not? Timing, luck, chance. Sh!t happens.
(I don't know how many times you want me to answer the same question. Again, the fact that you don't like my answer or that you disagree with it does not mean I have not answered you.)
"THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU. THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU! We want..."
Oh, okay. Now I get it. It's not about ME, it's about YOU and how I have to conform to YOUR ideals, beliefs, opinions, and whims. Thanks for clearing that up.
So your goal is to get me to say "I killed my baby"? Is that going to make you happy? How exactly do you want me to give "consideration" to other human beings? If you don't care what other people think about you, then why do you care if they "consider" you? Do even you understand what you are trying to say here?
Criss: "the child becomes a child, becomes a "baby," when the mother says it does."
ReplyDeletewow, that's amazing, just poof, she says it and it becomes a baby. I never knew this.
Pamela
"What was the name of your last fetus? Peanut for awhile but then Peanut Butter?"
ReplyDeleteI only name my children.
"There's nothing in the New Testament that directly addresses child porn either, Princess."
No, but the Old Testament has a lot to say about child sex trafficking. You know, that whole selling-your-daughters-into-slavery and giving daughters away as concubines and stuff... and I'm sure some of them were underage...
The New Testament has Mary and Joseph, who are generally portrayed as BOTH being teenagers, but scholars now say while Mary was likely 15 or 16, Joseph was in his 40s. So it's not child porn, but it is statutory rape. (No, they didn't have sex to conceive Jesus, but are you gonna tell me they were celibate throughout their whole marriage?)
(PS - I prefer "Queen," not "Princess." Thanks.)
I'm Criss, and we pro aborts will always say it's ok to kill babies,fetuses, embryos, blah,blah,blah......we don't use inflammatory rhetoric, but you do, blah,blah,blah.......we don't lie to women but you do, blah,blah,blah.....we are experts in biology, medicine, ethics, the bible, but you aren't, blah, blah, blah.....
ReplyDeleteROFLOL
who is feeding who? :D
Keep it comin'
Sue
Do you feel better now, Sue? Sometimes throwing a tantrum does make one feel better.
ReplyDeletePamela,
ReplyDeleteWell, now you do. You're really big on the "poof!" and "magic" stuff, aren't you?
Hey, whatever works for ya.
Oh Criss, you evil pro-choice woman...I think you've broken that poor woman's brain.
ReplyDeleteOk...so...This developing human and the other that you had killed were/are equals-you said it yourself that there is no difference...yet you wouldn't find it acceptable for this one to die and you paid for the life of the other to end...
ReplyDeleteYou make no sense whatsoever.
"What makes one person live and another die?"
You, if you don't want them to live. *rimshot*
But in all seriousness, I notice you are kind of half-assedly comparing a natural occurrence like miscarriage to abortion, which are two totally different things. It would be the difference between someone coming in and smothering your kid with a pillow in the night and them passing away in their sleep due to an illness/degenerative disease/birth defect. You can't just equate death with death. You're totally ignoring that YOU CAUSED IT.
Funny, but once again you stopped quoting me at THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF WHAT I WAS SAYING. Here, let me fix that for ya:
"We want the child you had killed to be recognized for the human he or she was, and afforded the proper respect and consideration he or she deserves/deserved, that he or she is not getting from you, the child's own mother."
This is about another human entity treated as nothing more than disposable garbage for your convenience. Period.
Love,
Anne
Again, Anne, how do you want "the child you had killed to be recognized for the human he or she was, and afforded the proper respect and consideration he or she deserves/deserved"?
ReplyDelete(And why does this consideration not apply to women?)
"...yet you wouldn't find it acceptable for this one to die and you paid for the life of the other to end..."
I would find it sad if this child did not get a chance to be born. It's not up to me to decide whose death is "acceptable" and whose isn't.
Earlier comment by Queen: "By the way, my fetus has a name. It's "Peanut."
ReplyDeleteLater comment by Queen: "I only name my children"
Current fetus is called Peanut. But you only name your children. Therefore, what you have in your "belly" is your child. Correct? Because you only name your children.
What where you carrying during your first pregnancy? Or is it because YOU hadn't named her/him yet, he/she was not worthy of you Oh Queen Bathory. Therefore innocent blood had to be shed.
Nice ivory complexion Your Majesty.
Did your doc tell you that it is probably a good idea for you to stop smoking crack now?
"(And why does this consideration not apply to women?)"
ReplyDeleteWho said it wasn't? Last I heard, nobody was advocating the legal ending of women's lives because they were inconvenient/not the right gender/too expensive to take care of/etc...Women already have this consideration that many of them are not giving their own children. You're a perfect example.
but isn't that just what you did/are doing (deciding whose death is acceptable and whose isn't) by paying for one to be killed and fighting for this one to live? Once again...no sense is made.
Well gee howdy Carla you sure told me!
ReplyDelete*eyeroll*
As with any medical procedure, sometimes abortions go wrong, and that's tragic. As with any profession- doctors, dentists, teachers, clergy- there are a few bad eggs, who should be punished.
Abortion hurts some women. Adoption destroys some women. Motherhood wrecks some women. Some women regret never having children. Part of being a full citizen and human being is the right and the duty to make our own choices.
Has anyone ever read The Girls Who Went Away?
Several comments by me: I refer to the fetus as my child.
ReplyDeleteYes, this fetus is my child. I have stated that several times.
Do you think you discovered something new?
Since I answered the question, "What did you name your first fetus?" with, "I only name my children," then I clearly did not see that pregnancy as "my child." That is why I never named it; there was nothing to name.
What new revelation did you think you had made?
(Has anyone told you that being rude does not make you right?)
Anne here, forgot to sign my post, but I only did the last one, not the anon before that.
ReplyDeleteI like how it's all about the touchy-feelies of what Madam Criss "feels" rather than scientific fact of what constitutes another human life deeming it worthy of protection by law. And they say pro-lifers are the ones who are "unscientific". Hardy har har.
ReplyDelete-Anne
"Who said it wasn't?"
ReplyDelete(I'm assuming this is Anne... unless someone else is taking up her convo?)
When you advocate to make abortion illegal, you are taking away the "consideration" of the woman as a human. You can pretend that the only reason women get abortions is because they want a baby of the other gender, but unfortunately the issue is much more complicated than that. Women choose abortion because of medical reasons, emotional/psychological reasons, and a bazillion other kinds of reasons.
If you granted them the "consideration" to treat them as human beings who can make their own decisions about their lives, their bodies, and their parenting, you would not be fighting to make abortion illegal.
I do not get to decide what is "acceptable." I make my choices based on what I think is best for me and the people around me. Whether it's "acceptable" or not is up to God to decide. When I die, I'll let Him tell me what He thinks of the way I chose to live my life.
"I like how it's all about the touchy-feelies of what Madam Criss "feels" rather than scientific fact of what constitutes another human life deeming it worthy of protection by law. And they say pro-lifers are the ones who are "unscientific". Hardy har har"
ReplyDeleteWhen you ask for my opinion, I'm going to tell you what I think. I'm sorry my opinions do not agree with yours -- but was that a surprise?
The law protects a woman's right to have an abortion; that's not my "touchy-feelies," that's the law.
(If you don't want to be called "unscientific," don't throw a hissy fit when someone uses the word "fetus" to refer to a fetus.)
"When you advocate to make abortion illegal, you are taking away the "consideration" of the woman as a human."
ReplyDeleteReally? You mean humans don't get pregnant and procreate like every other mammalian species on the planet?! OH WOW, WHO KNEW?! Getting pregnant after having sex is a well-known occurrence, and shouldn't be surprising to anyone when it happens. Also, I'm not sure if you knew this either, but pregnant women get all the same consideration of their well-being under the law as non-pregnant women. I can't recall anyone telling me when I was pregnant that "Oh yeah, and now that you're knocked up, police won't seek to prosecute your murderer if someone elects to terminate you. Tough luck."
What do the reasons women elect to have their children killed in the womb have to do with anything? Are the reasons a bank robber who shoots someone to death in the process of committing the crime ever taken into consideration when they're deciding what to charge the guy with? I guess Andrea Yates had a legitimate reason for drowning her children, and shouldn't have been charged, because it was a super-difficult decision, m'kay! Please.
Moral issues are only complicated for those with no sense of basic human decency.
"If you granted them the "consideration" to treat them as human beings who can make their own decisions about their lives..."
Yeah. THEIR lives. Too bad abortion is ending an entirely different human entity's life.
"I make my choices based on what I think is best for me and the people around me."
Yeah, and pedophiles think that sexual relations with 5 year olds is right for them and the 5 year olds around them, and THAT WORKS OUT PERFECTLY FINE, AMIRITE?! Living life according to the touchy-feelies instead of consideration for others (like, not ending your child's life in utero, for instance) isn't always a legitimate course of action. Heck, even just by the letter of the law isn't really always acceptable, as evidenced by the law's clear lack of consideration on the part of the fetal human parties in the Roe vs. Wade case. Slavery would be another instance of this as well.
And I wasn't included in those who were irate about the "fetus" thing, even though I do think you say it with disdain in order to distance yourself emotionally from your offspring, which is sad.
-Anne
Anne,
ReplyDeleteThe law does take into consideration the reasons why a crime was committed. Pre-meditated murder (such as what Scott Roeder did to Dr. George Tiller) is viewed very differently than killing someone in self-defense or defense of the innocent.
I don't recall the details of Andrea Yates's trial, but from what I remember before the trial there was much talk and speculation about her mental state; "insanity" is a legal defense. So, yes, the law does care about the reasons when they charge the guy.
I don't know where you live, but I'm in Texas. Where we have the highest teen pregnancy rate, and the strictest "abstinence-only" programs. Which means our teens are not getting INFORMATION about sex and how sex makes babies.
So, no, some of those girls getting pregnant do not know that sex makes babies.
The fact that it's not like that in YOUR life does not mean it's not like that in someone else's life. Come meet some of the kids I work with.
You consider the embryo/fetus to be a human entity different and separate from the woman. I do not. This is where you and I disagree, and neither one of us is going to change the other's mind.
If it makes you feel better to call me names, then go for it. Knock yourself out. Whatever floats your boat.
I'm not going to tell you I regret my abortion, because I don't. I'm not going to tell you "I killed my baby," because that's not what happened. I know why I did what I did, and if you truly were interested in hearing my story, in taking the time to consider me as a human being (and not some "baby-killer"), I would tell you. But you aren't interested in listening, you are interested in arguing and condemning and calling me names and feeling morally superior to me.
Which, again, if it makes you feel better, go for it.
(In your comment you said "pro-lifers" are the ones who are called "unscientific." Well, "pro-lifers" are the ones who have been commenting on here, upset about my use of the word "fetus." You, personally, have not complained about that, but "pro-lifers" have. This is why "pro-lifers" are called "unscientific." Pardon me for using the collective "you.")
Queen says, "(Has anyone told you that being rude does not make you right?)"
ReplyDeleteIt's not about being right to me. It's about saving innocent lives.
But thanks for letting me know where you are coming from. OK, your right. Feel empowered Your Majesty?
re: pedophiles: I don't know any of them personally, but I'm pretty pedophiles, and other sexual predators/abusers/molesters/rapists, are very aware they are hurting the people they abuse. That's part of what gets them off.
ReplyDeleteSexual assault is not about sex, it's about power and control. The abusers know this.
Anonymous, I tried to reply to you. I really did. But, I'm sorry. I can only respond to coherent thought -- or at least the semblance of it.
ReplyDeleteYay for you, saving innocent lives! That's so noble. Hope all the commenting over here hasn't take up too much of your innocent-life-saving time.
Have a good night! Sweet dreams!
Zoe,
ReplyDeleteI did read The Girls Who Went Away. Heartbreaking stories. Motherhood/Womenhood was shamed then (covered up, lied about, not respected, etc.) Hasn't changed. But now we can "enpower" women to kill their children in order to hide pregnancy and new life, something beautiful that should have never been shamed in the first place.
Men built a Big Trap and you Chose to walk right into it.
40 years from now our children will write a book and the readers will be shocked about what has been done. How can you not be shocked about the realities of abortion? It is so, so sad.
"I don't recall the details of Andrea Yates's trial, but from what I remember before the trial there was much talk and speculation about her mental state; "insanity" is a legal defense."
ReplyDeleteYes. Too bad she was still charged with murder. And to think, if she just would've gotten to them a few years sooner, it would've been called "abortion" and she would've been off the hook! Once again, laws can and often times should be changed. Looking at the fact that the life of the yet-to-be-born human wasn't even considered in the Roe vs. Wade case due to lack of sophistication of medical technology I think it's about time for an update.
"I don't know where you live, but I'm in Texas. Where we have the highest teen pregnancy rate, and the strictest "abstinence-only" programs. Which means our teens are not getting INFORMATION about sex and how sex makes babies."
O rly? You realize that a formal sex ed. setting isn't the only place they're getting this basic biological information, right? It's been awhile since I've been in jr. high/high school, but I seem to remember taking science classes which detailed how exactly this process of reproduction goes. If they're not learning, it sounds like a problem with the TEACHERS...
"You consider the embryo/fetus to be a human entity different and separate from the woman. I do not."
Yep. My suspicions are confirmed. Apparently their teacher doesn't even know basic facts about human reproduction. Do you also think the earth is flat and dinosaurs never existed? Poor kids. They don't even have a chance.
And re: pedophiles,
Read the NAMBLA mission statement sometime (if you can manage to keep down your dinner). They think they're doing kids a favor. The road to hell really IS paved with good intentions, huh?
-Anne
Zoe,
ReplyDeleteI volunteer with a group that has collected thousands of legal briefs of the pain of abortion. They are not "complications" of a medical procedure. I believe 3 women have died at the same abortion clinic in CA. Someone was brought to the hospital yesterday from the same clinic. Abortion hurts women. The intent of the abortion is to kill the child. It is always lethal to the child.
Bad eggs. Ha Yeah those abortionists can be bad eggs.
Please introduce me to your friends who wish they had aborted. Who regret that they didn't abort. You know the ones who after a few years of being moms say about their children, "I wish I would have killed Joey."
Criss,
Call your baby Peanut or Pistachio or Fonzie Fetus. I care not.
You said Peanut doesn't become a real, live human baby until birth. Prove it. With basic science and reasoning skills please prove that assertion. The burden of proof is on you. Prove that a moment before birth a child isn't REAL. Prove that before birth a child isn't ALIVE.(gee, what is all that kicking about?) Prove that before birth a child isn't HUMAN.
"Hope all the commenting over here hasn't take up too much of your innocent-life-saving time."
ReplyDeleteIt is never a waste of time to try to prevent the slaughter of innocent life.
Using your time to condone this slaughtering, is a different story.
"Sexual assault is not about sex, it's about power and control. The abusers know this."
ReplyDeleteThe abusers DO NOT know this and if they do VERY FEW will admit that this is what it is about.
Abortion is about the Ultimate Control and Power Trip. And you can't admit it.
Huge Redwood in Your Eye. Please take it out for Humanity's Sake.
"The law protects a woman's right to have an abortion; that's not my "touchy-feelies," that's the law."
ReplyDeleteAnd the law has been wrong before and it is wrong about abortion now. 40 plus years of protesters (yes, some started before it became law!) What and why do you think these people are protesting? Are all the peole over all of these years who are opposed to abortion just insane? Are they misguided or are YOU?
Your side has a right to picket and do the same yet where are they? And your side calls us anonomous cowards. The Tiller site with all those people holding up papers to hide there faces. Some might be frightened and I ALMOST ALL prolifers NEVER condoned in any way the killing of an abortionist and think this is sad as well. Because a few mostly men I believe have taken it to this level does not make the whole prolife movement baseless. You are wrong to lump the rest of the pro-life millions in with those who have killed an abortionist.
Most of these people on the Tiller site feel shame, not fear. The ones that don't deep down feel shame, don't feel shame about anything and are the ones who show their faces. They cannot feel shame because they rationalize to themselves and the world that they are helping humanity as they are killing the most vulnerable part of it.
There are better ways to live.
We were having conversations for a bit there, but this has now devolved into "BABY-KILLER!!! BABY-KILLER!! RAAAAHHH!!!!" Which, again, if it makes you happy, go for it. Don't expect me to respond, though.
ReplyDeleteTwo things I do need to address (but not for the antis, they're not interested in listening; I just can't let this not be said):
About sex ed: here in Texas, and in many other states where "abstinence only" is the law, teachers are not allowed to teach sex ed no matter what class they're in. Health teachers are not allowed to talk about sex and the naughty bits, biology teachers are not allowed to talk about sex and the naughty bits, NO teachers are allowed to talk about sex and the naughty bits. It's against the law. Those teachers can get fired.
Instead, students learn "sex ed" from their friends: "If you jump up and down after sex you won't get pregnant." "If the girl's on top, you can't get pregnant because sperm can't swim against gravity." "If you douche with Coke after sex you won't get pregnant, because the carbonation kills the sperm."
And if a student were to go to a teacher and ask if any of this were true? The teacher is not allowed to discuss it, unless that teacher wants to risk losing his or her job.
It sounds ridiculous, but as ridiculous as it is, it's true.
re: the people responding to Zoe("abortion hurts women!!!"):
"Abortion" is a dirty word in our society, thanks to the loud cries of the "pro-life" movement and to their terrorist tactics. Some medicals schools do not properly train doctors on how to perform abortions (or treat complications with pregnancies); doctors must choose between their chosen profession and the safety of their family; clinics must spend money on security cameras and bullet-proof glass instead of spending that money on new equipment, training for their staff, or being fully staffed.
Back-alley abortions still exists, because women are scared to walk through the line of protesters ready to shame them, or because there are no legit clinics in the area.
Because women are not allowed to talk about abortion, some women are pressured into making a choice they do not want by husbands, fathers, boyfriends who make the choice for them. Women cannot confide in their friends, who could save them from the situation and provide the help and support they need, for fear of being shamed or judged by those friends.
Because women are not allowed to talk about abortion, women who have had an abortion can't openly talk about their feelings, for fear of being shamed, and they can eventually start to believe the hate and shaming spewed by "pro-life" organizations and individuals.
Yes, some women are hurt by abortion. If we removed the stigma, if we removed the taboo, how many of those women would be saved? How many of those botched abortions would not have happened, because instead the woman was able to go to a legitimate hospital with a competent, trained doctor? How many of those women who were taken to a clinic by an abusive boyfriend or husband or father could have spoken up, reached out to a friend, and found the help and support needed to say "No" to that man and keep her pregnancy?
The women who have an abortion and DO NOT regret it rarely speak up. Mainly because they don't have something to speak up about -- I don't go around testifying about the root canal I had, it's a non-issue.
But when a woman does speak up, like Angie or, say, me, this happens [see comments above]. She is attacked, shamed, insulted, taunted. (Hey, at least I haven't gotten any death threats -- yet -- like Angie did.)
Did y'all even stop and think that maybe, just maybe, some of those women who tell you how ashamed and regretful they are about their abortion might have resorted to telling you that just to get you to SHUT UP?
Gotta say, it has crossed my mind.
Those that truly regret their abortions don't attend a Rachel's Vineyard retreat just to shut us up, or fill out a declaration at Operation Outcry just to shut us up, or join Silent No More Awareness just to shut us up.
ReplyDeleteNice try though.
Women are not allowed to talk about abortion??!! LOL
"And to think, if she just would've gotten to them a few years sooner, it would've been called "abortion" and she would've been off the hook!"
ReplyDeletePlease tell me how what I said is a.) inaccurate and b.) anything remotely close to just "BABY-KILLER BABY-KILLER BABY-KILLER! RAAAAH!!!!!".
Your brain might see legitimate points as that, because it doesn't want to think about what you've done in real terms. Just like you don't like thinking about your offspring in real terms, because it might give you-oh noez!-"THE GUILT". WE don't GIVE people guilt. People either have it or don't, usually because THEY felt they've done something wrong.
What do you do about this atrocious lack of knowledge on the kids' parts? When you hear them say this stuff, do you write a note home or call saying "Hey, I heard little Billy say _this_ today in school, you might want to talk to him about it because I'm concerned."? Just sayin'...
-Anne
Anne,
ReplyDeleteThe parents who respect their children and WANT them to be informed, talk to them at home. The parents who don't trust their children think that if they never mention sex, the kids won't find out about it and will therefore not try it.
If a parent were to send such a note home, the parent would, more than likely, immediately call the principal and demand the teacher be fired for talking to her precious children about S-E-X. The principal would then side with the parent, because administrators are scared of parents, and the teacher would get in trouble for "talking about sex" when the teacher never said anything, merely overheard a conversation. But the parent won't see it that way; according to the parent, if the student was talking about sex, it MUST be because the evil teacher brought it up, because MY precious child would NEVER talk about sex, because MY kids are SO PERFECT.
Does this make sense?
No.
Does it happen this way?
Yes.
Maybe people who don't live in states that boast A) the Tea Party and B) secession don't fully understand the ignorance and pig-headedness the human race is capable of.
I wouldn't care. If I really cared about the kids, I'd tell parents what they needed to hear. Wouldn't YOU want someone to tell you what your child said if they were overheard saying this stuff?
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, you're an awesome teacher and caretaker that totally worries more about the kids' well-being than her own convenience and job security. GG.
-Anne
And you totally ditch the rest of everything I said because it doesn't suit you.
ReplyDeleteNo wonder the state of the American educational system is in shambles. The teachers are as ignorant as the students, AND they're morally bankrupt to boot.
On that note, I'm done with you. Enjoy your child you are allowing to live, and hopefully one day the other you killed will get the mourning from you he/she deserves.
"And if a student were to go to a teacher and ask if any of this were true? The teacher is not allowed to discuss it, unless that teacher wants to risk losing his or her job."
ReplyDeleteWhat school do you teach at Criss? I am really interested. I too am a teacher (Public 6th - 8th) and you should not be misrepresenting the truth. I have come across situations like the above so I do know a bit of what I am talking about.
Does your school have a counselor and/or a principal? Lying to protect your own agenda is totally out of line and unfair to all public school teachers to say nothing of the parents you are referring to. How long have you been teaching in the public school system? Please let me know what school you teach at and I will ask some questions and find out if what you say is indeed true. If it is not true, again I state you are way out of line.
"The women who have an abortion and DO NOT regret it rarely speak up. Mainly because they don't have something to speak up about -- I don't go around testifying about the root canal I had, it's a non-issue."
If abortion is such a non-issue to you why dedicate all of this to the topic? Kinda of a sick way to remember the non-issue you chose to abort but a memorial to him/her nonetheless.
And how can you claim to know something if these women "rarely speak up?" Sorry but this teacher and parent says that your credibility is a non-issue.
Anne, you can relax. I am no longer teaching, thanks in part to parents and the Texas State Board of Education. I just couldn't take it anymore.
ReplyDelete(Since I'm back here, STILL talking to you: again, just because I didn't give the answer you wanted me to give does not mean I didn't answer. I know I've had to say the same thing two or three times for each to stick, but I'm tired of repeating myself and rephrasing in order to make it clearer for you to understand. Everything you've asked worth answering, I've answered. Thanks.)
Yet Another Anonymous,
I've taught in three different districts in Texas; spent 8 years in the classroom. Where do you teach?
I never said abortion was a non-issue to me. Talking about it has helped me, which is one of the reasons I keep this blog. I also want my voice to help other women who have gone or are going through what I went through.
Through speaking up, I have engaged in conversations with women who would not otherwise have spoken up, and women who quietly let me know their story after hearing mine.
I'm glad my credibility is a non-issue. I didn't think anyone was contesting it, but it's still nice to know you don't think it needs to be debated. Thanks!
What a relief to hear your are no longer teaching! My faith continues in Texas public schools.
ReplyDeleteYou're willing and capable of taking alot. Based on your lack of credibility on here it is my guess that you didn't have much of a choice in leaving education.
Your credibility is a non-issue because you have none.
Criss at 12:28PM:
ReplyDelete"Abortion is a dirty word in our society, thanks to the loud cries of the "pro-life" movement and to their terrorist tactics."
Please, please do not insult me as a person that supports the pro-life movement as one that uses terrorist tactics. Is that what you are implying? If so, for you to equate the pro-life movement to this is just wrong. And, yes, I do know the meaning of the word terrorism and terrorist tactics. The Scott Roeders of the world are a minority and you know it. Is holding candlelight vigils and praying outside of a Planned Parenthood a "terrorist tactic"? If some of these pro-life citizens are yelling hateful and vile insults to women and men walking into the abortion clinic, yes,this is uncharitable and wrong. But, please be fair about the pro-abort/pro-choice side being just as uncharitable at times. When I watched the Walk For Life in San Francisco a couple of years ago, those yelling and spewing hatred were the pro-choicers/pro-aborts on the sidelines, while the pro-lifers were peacefully walking. So, it can go both ways.
Also, since approximately 52 million (not sure of exact #) embryo's/fetuses/babies have been aborted since 1973, isn't it fair to guess that about 1/2 (maybe a little more, maybe a little less) were FEMALE? Gosh, I bet 25 million or so had the potential to be really great WOMEN!
My name's Dee, by the way. :)
Am I missing something or is the only one screaming BABY KILLER, BABY KILLER yourself?
ReplyDeleteMy name's Jean by the way.:)
WOW! Go Criss, go!
ReplyDeleteWell Criss, addressing your thoughts on Christianity, abortion, and the bible here are some thoughts:
ReplyDeleteEcc. 11:5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
Psa 139: 14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
Psa 139:15 My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Psa 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
The first two passaged are from the OT. Clearly we have no idea how or when the 'life' or immortal soul is 'breathed' by God into a fetus, but there are other passages (like the one in Ephesians) indicate that God knew His own 'before the foundation of the world' (That means before the world was created).
About the passage in Numbers ch. 5 - it doesn't mention abortion at all - only punishment for an adulterous woman. It doesn't talk about her being pregnant, and the part you are vaguely referencing about causing her to be barren - it's a redundant theme troughout the bible that being barren is considered a curse/punishment. If you bother to take the passage out to the conclusion and consider scholarly interpretation, you will find that you are guilty of MISinterpretation. If you would care to get into a lengthy discussion on the finer points of your error, let me know.
Your pro abortion point of view is not nearly as troubling or as dangerous as the indifference you (as a professed Christian) have (based on your own intellect) to the authority of God's word. We're not talking about cells here, we are talking about souls. If you are a Christian (experientially, and not based on your own intellect) you would concede this.
The best part is that there is forgivness for sin. Even the sin of abortion. If you have no regret now, I can confidently say that one day you will (even though I don't believe you when you say you don't). Jesus - God incarnate - lived a sinless life so he could be the sacrifice for all sin - and to those who cry out in repentance for salvation, he freely justifies so that we can stand before God on the day of judgement and be found not guilty because of the blood of Christ.
-------------------
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, nor can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, Lord! Lord! shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord! Lord! Did we not prophesy in Your name, and through Your name throw out demons, and through Your name do many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then I will say to them I never knew you! Depart from Me, those working lawlessness!
God is the Alpha and the Omega. He knows ALL. Before He formed ME in the womb, before He formed my parents or grandparents or before he created Adam and Eve He knew I would choose to have an abortion.
ReplyDeleteGod isn't stupid.
All those people to whom he speaks, telling them about knowing how He formed them in the womb, how He chose them for such and such position/role, God knew those pregnancies would carry to term and those infants would live.
He knew my first pregnancy wouldn't.
In Genesis God breathes the Breath of Life into Adam, and Adam's soul enters his body with that first breath -- which, for all those of us formed in a mother's womb from a sperm and egg and not directly by God's hands from clay, happens outside the womb, at birth.
Regarding the passage in Numbers, scholars agree that "causing the thigh to rot" is a clear reference to a miscarriage, which is caused by the "bitter water" the priest gives the woman... which makes the "bitter water" the Biblical version of RU 486.
If I were one to cast stones, I'd have a few choice words to say to you, as well. I'm strong in my faith and my beliefs, or my relationship with God, are not threatened by your chastising.
But thanks for commenting.
So God made us without the ability to choose between good and evil? Does God care whether I choose to abort? Does God care whether or not someone shoots an abortionist? Why hold back from calling terrible names whenever you feel like it if God doesn't care.
ReplyDeleteSo it is useless for me to ever chastise my children about anything? What about when they steal or lie? My influence on them will mean nothing?
Can God make a rock so large that even he can't move it?
You could take your theology lessons a bit further if you so Choose.
I have no idea where all of this came from.
ReplyDeleteGod gave us Free Will. We make our own choices; He knows what those choices will be, but the choices are ours.
I believe He out certain people and experiences in my life to help me make the choice I made. (You will disagree, but I'm not surprised. Nor will I be concerned; you know nothing about my life, even if you were to read this entire blog and the Xanga I kept before.)
I'm not going to tell you how to raise your children, and I really don't see how your question is in any way related to my response to you (if you're the same Anonymous, there's so many of you...)
I'm sure if God really wanted to, He could make a rock so large even He can't move it. I'm not going to put limits on Him. But I'm also sure that if He wanted to move the rock He made that was so large even He couldn't move it, He would be able to move it.
I'm not giving "theology lessons," I'm answering questions posed to me about my personal beliefs.
"I'm answering questions posed to me about my personal beliefs."
ReplyDeleteDo you believe that Jesus thinks abortion is sinful? Do you think Jesus wants humans to abort their unborn?
We are interested in hearing your answers. Thanks.
Jean
You - "I'm sure if God really wanted to, He could make a rock so large even He can't move it. I'm not going to put limits on Him. But I'm also sure that if He wanted to move the rock He made that was so large even He couldn't move it, He would be able to move it."
ReplyDeleteMe - Reread very, very carefully please. This may take many times.
Me - "You could take your theology lessons a bit further if you so Choose."
You - "I'm not giving "theology lessons, I'm answering questions posed to me about my personal beliefs."
Me - My statement on theology meant you have more to learn on the subject, not more to teach.
Christian Prochoicer says to Criss- "I suggest you just ignore antis. They've shown here, over and over, that they hate women for aborting and they hate women for carrying to term. Surround yourself with friends and loved ones and just enjoy your pregnancy!"
ReplyDeleteA "Christian" not wanting you to listen to others who have opposing views? Why? What is her agenda? Is she an aboritionist or does she make money off of the industry? I would never suggest to anyone not to listen to all sides and I am pro-life. What is PC so afraid of?
Jean, I've answered that already; you can scroll up to see what I said about Christianity and the Bible and abortion.
ReplyDeleteYou/Me Anonymous:
What do you want me to re-read? And why? Was that to me, or a note to yourself?
And, if you don't mind, I'd rather heed my pastor's advice on whether or not I need more "theology lessons."
Anonymous attacking Christian Pro-Choicer:
She was telling me to ignore the people who "hate women for aborting and they hate women for carrying to term" because they don't have anything constructive to say, they just spew hate.
If you want to have a civil conversation, I'm all for it (and so it she). If you care to read the (very long) comment thread, you will see that I listen to and respond to opposing views, unless all they do is spew hate and ignorance. I can assure you Christian Pro-Choicer does the same, I have seen her do this often.
Her advice was to me, a newly-pregnant mother, to focus on myself and to "Surround yourself with friends and loved ones and just enjoy your pregnancy!" instead of engaging in debates with people who are more interested in passing judgement and condemning my past actions. To care for myself and my child, instead of focusing on the hate being directed at me in this comment thread.
(part one)
ReplyDeleteCriss
First of all let me remove anonymity – I only posted once today at 1:03. My name is Leah.
You wrote in reply:
God is the Alpha and the Omega. He knows ALL. Before He formed ME in the womb, before He formed my parents or grandparents or before he created Adam and Eve He knew I would choose to have an abortion.
Agreed. He did know this before he formed you. Just as he knew the writers of scripture and what they would do. One of God’s attributes is immutability. He is consistent, He doesn’t change. If He predestined the Psalmist, then he predestines everyone, including those who do not survive pregnancy for whatever reason. This does not mean He does not regard them as humans, nor does it mean that aborted ‘fetuses’ do not have souls. He knew Hitler would kill Jews. He knew Ted Bundy would murder women. He knew terrorists would fly planes into the WTC. He knew you would have an abortion, and thankfully, He is great enough to snatch the life you ended from hell. He knew man would sin, and keep sinning. This is why He instituted His LAW.
His LAW says, “Thou shall not kill”. We logically interpret this to mean another human being. Irrefutable science tells us that at the moment of fertilization, the genetic composition of a human being is complete. Granted, it is a mass of cells in zygotic phase – However, removing it is not akin to “killing a brain cell” or “removing a tumor”. Brain cells are only brain cells. Tumor cells are only tumor cells. A fertilized egg is every component of a human being, therefore, it is human. So when you kill this group of cells, you are killing the genetic composition of a human being. And to say it is not fully formed would mean your abortion would have to be before five weeks of gestation. This means that statistically, most abortions are on fully formed human beings, regardless of their ability to survive outside the womb.
So killing a human being is clearly breaking God’s law i.e. sin. “What then? Should we continue to sin that grace may abound? GOD FORBID!”
(part two)
ReplyDeleteGod isn't stupid.
Agreed – But compared to him, we are.
1Co 3:18 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this world, let him become a fool so that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written, "He takes the wise in their own craftiness."
So do take care that your wisdom is not that of the world.
In Genesis God breathes the Breath of Life into Adam, and Adam's soul enters his body with that first breath -- which, for all those of us formed in a mother's womb from a sperm and egg and not directly by God's hands from clay, happens outside the womb, at birth.
Scholarly interpretation (Gill, Henry, Jamiesson, Faussett and Brown) suggests the passage in Ecclesiastes is talking about the spirit of life, or the soul, and at the minimum the passage tells us we don’t know how or when God places the soul or when the soul departs. There are various passages that indicate salvation of a mortal soul before birth.
Regarding the passage in Numbers, scholars agree that "causing the thigh to rot" is a clear reference to a miscarriage, which is caused by the "bitter water" the priest gives the woman... which makes the "bitter water" the Biblical version of RU 486.
Could you please tell me who the scholars are you are referring to? All the priest puts in the water is dust from the floor of the temple, and the result is the woman becomes ill perhaps leading to infertility. Adultery is not necessarily synonymous with pregnancy, so the punishment in mind here is clearly for adultery. “Thigh rotting” doesn’t give me a clear reference to anything but a rotting thigh. I would be interested to hear the connection to miscarriage.
Actually, truth be told, the bible is pretty absent of any commentary on abortion, but it is redundant in its prohibition of the taking of ‘innocent’ life. Jesus did not abrogate the law, but kept it perfectly so that He could be the sacrifice for the sins of the world.
I find it interesting that in some of your earlier replies you conveyed a certain abhorrence of people who “spew talking points”. I find it interesting that some of your replies are nearly verbatim spewing of various “Pro-choice Christian” groups’ talking points. Or perhaps you authored their talking points, and I stand in error. If you are truly a Christian, it is incumbent upon you not to cause another to sin. I hope you reconsider your actions as you continue to support killing, and I will pray to that end for you.
(part three)
ReplyDeleteIn part two, I did not point out that the following:
"In Genesis God breathes the Breath of Life into Adam, and Adam's soul enters his body with that first breath -- which, for all those of us formed in a mother's womb from a sperm and egg and not directly by God's hands from clay, happens outside the womb, at birth."
are your words, not mine, and that my rebuttal follows.
I'm sorry, Criss - when I posted to your blog, all of my italics that indicated your words were cleared for some reason.....I hope the two parts were not too difficult for you to muddle through and that the import of my reply was not terribly unclear. - Leah
ReplyDeleteChristian Prochoicer says to Criss- "I suggest you just ignore antis."
ReplyDeleteAnon replies: A "Christian" not wanting you to listen to others who have opposing views? Why? What is her agenda? Is she an aboritionist or does she make money off of the industry? I would never suggest to anyone not to listen to all sides and I am pro-life. What is PC so afraid of?"
Then you state that this Anon is "attacking Christian Pro-Choicer"
How is someone pointing out that PC is attempting to keep you isolated from differing viewpoints remotely close to attacking anyone? The questions Anon asks are legitimate to the subject and in no way attacking. Accusing someone of attacking someone else on no merit is throwing out the victim card. Neither you or PC are victims, except by the Prochoice view. CP using the word Christian in her title but then refuses to share why she is a Christian. She falls back on herself rather than Jesus. This is not Christianity. Anyone who disagrees with her is being "Judgemental". I disagree with those adults who think they should be allowed to have sex with minors if the minor verbally agrees (unfortunately this goes on in our world as well) Does this make me "judgemental" because I speak out about it? PC does not want your thinking to go further because this would blow her whole facade of claiming to follow Christ while still promoting abortion as a positive.
"To care for myself and my child" Absolutely, this should be your first priority. I know you probably feel judged by all "antis" but some of us actually used to agree with you. Some Prolifers are very excited and happy for you and wish you all the best. This doesn't mean we should support the fact that you didn't care for your first child the way you deep down know you could have and should have. However, we too are all sinners and cannot judge but are obligated to Christ to try to stop you from pushing this harmful abortion agenda on others. This is not judging, this is participating as The Body of Christ.
What are you so afraid of? Jesus is more mericiful than any human could ever possible be. He loves you more than any human possible could. He can not forgive you if you refuse to admit that your abortion was a sin and cling to your own ways. Truly asking Jesus for forgiveness for your abortion and all of your sins and living in his Glory is the best thing you will ever do for yourself and your little one.
Congrats and Best Wishes. Being a Mom is the greatest gift God ever gave me.
Erica
Leah,
ReplyDeleteAn acorn has all the DNA and genetic material to be an oak. But it's not an oak yet. Even when you plant it, and a little sprout, perhaps adorned with a leaf or two, pops up from the ground, it's still not an oak.
A five-week embryo (actually, it's not an embryo at 5 weeks... the embryonic stage is from 6-10 weeks; can't remember what it is between zygote and embryo) may have all the necessary genetic material, but it is far from a live human being. None of the organs required for it to breathe and live have formed yet, and none are functioning. The only reason it is alive is because the mother keeps it alive.
When you can separate that embryo/fetus from the mother and it can live independently of the biological mother, then I'll agree that it's a separate human being.
Killing a human being is against the Ten Commandments, which state "Thou Shalt Not Kill." But what does God say about killing for self defense? Is that addressed specifically in the Bible? Human law allows for self-defense and defense of the innocent. Would God consider it a sin if a girl being violently raped shot her attacker?
Some things are not black and white. Some things are not clearly outlined in the Bible. This is why God gave us intellect, the power of discernment, and Free Will.
"So do take care that your wisdom is not that of the world."
I could say the same to you. Neither one of us is God, neither one of us can tell the other she's wrong.
"...the passage tells us we don’t know how or when God places the soul or when the soul departs."
So why are you so certain that the soul enters the mass of cells at fertilization?
The word "thigh" is used to refer to genitals often in the Old Testament. If you look at other translations of the passage, you'll see that instead of causing the thigh to rot, the "bitter water" causes the uterus to rot or fall out. (http://bible.cc/numbers/5-22.htm)
The crime of which the wife is accused is sleeping with another man, which back in the days before birth control was quite likely to mean a pregnancy. A pregnancy could also be what clued the husband in to the fact that his wife was sleeping around on him. If the woman's uterus falls out, what happens to the fetus in that uterus?
I got my information from Joyce Arthur's article discussing the Bible and abortion (http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/abortion.html) where she writes:
"Virtually all Biblical scholars agree that this voodoo ritual and its cloaked euphemisms refer to an induced (not to mention unsafe) abortion. The word "thigh" in the Old Testament usually means genitals, but in this case, it refers to the uterus and its contents. One alternate Bible translation reads, "She will have barrenness and a miscarrying womb." (New International Version)"
I thought she addressed the scholars in one of the footnotes, but the footnote refers to the miscarriage in Exodus. If you really want me to, I can research this further... but are you really open to accepting any studies I find that quote scholars saying the thigh is the genitals/uterus? Or will you tell me they obviously have a pro-choice bias, and dismiss them?
If we are born in sin, of sin, how can a fetus be innocent?
Leah, (cont)
ReplyDeleteI'm not going to read over everything I've written because I wish I had that kind of time on my hands, honestly. I think the only time I referred to "talking points" was when addressing why I didn't respond to the "mental gymnastics" comments, or saying why I have not responded to each and every anonymous on here.
If you think all I'm doing is "spewing talking points," then why do you bother asking me questions that I'll just answer with more talking points? You could save us both some time by... doing anything else.
Erica,
ReplyDeleteObviously you and I read that anonymous's tone differently. You saw it as an innocent question, I read it as snarky. So I used the word "attack." Which was perhaps too strong a word; we can go back to the use of hyperbole, as discussed earlier in the thread. (See, THAT would be hyperbole.)
"What are you so afraid of?"
I'm afraid of something going wrong with my pregnancy, as I stated in the post (did anyone actually read it?) I'm also afraid of snakes and most bugs. And of my husband dying.
Other than that, not much. Why?
Just out of curiousity Criss, what will you do if when your fetus becomes born you discover that birthing it did not make it into a baby?
ReplyDeleteWhat if it turns out to be not human?
Will you call Animal Control to take it away? Or wait, that may not be very humane, huh. Maybe the Humane Society would be better, because they never kill once put up for adoption.
Or will you keep it as the family pet?
If I give birth to a whale, I'll let you know.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a serious question or worthwhile comment, let me know.
How is my question, in light of your blog post, not serious? Your blog post states "It's not a baby until it comes out, and it coming out, becoming a baby, is not a given. At all. I really, really want this fetus to become a baby."
ReplyDeleteThis tells all that you are not sure WHAT it is you are carrying, only that it is fetus of some sort....something that might come out not a baby.
So, in light of this, how is my question not serious? Especially with your response that if you give birth to a whale you will let us know...which means you think it is a possibility that you may give birth to a whale. Of course, you could be being sarcastic...but in light of your post where you make it clear you 'know' that the thing in your womb is not a baby, we cannot assume that you are being sarcastic. For according to your post, it is a fetus that you "hope" will turn into a baby.
So truly, a very serious question is, what other thing do you believe that thing growing in you could possibily "become", if not a baby? Since you can only "hope" that it "becomes" one? What are the other possibilities?
Besides a whale that is....
I am growing a fetus. If all goes according to plan, it will grow until it's ready to be born. At which point, out will pop a baby.
ReplyDeleteThere is no guarantee that it will be born. I hope it becomes a baby, which is what happens when a fetus goes through birth/labor. But I don't know if I'll get to that point.
I could miscarry. I could have a stillborn (in which case, a corpse, not a baby, comes out). I could have a fetus with severe anomalies that would prevent it from surviving, in which case my doctor may recommend I terminate the pregnancy.
These are all the things that could happen, which would keep the fetus from following its normal course and eventually becoming a baby.
Do I need to spell it our further?
I guess what you haven't made clear is whether or not you know the fetal organism growing within your womb is a human being or not
ReplyDeleteMy friend once lost her fetus at 8 months. I know what your saying Desperato, I had one helluva time finding a card that said, "Sorry to hear about your corpse."
ReplyDeleteCriss,
ReplyDeleteWhy the comment about since "we are born into sin and of sin, so how can a fetus be innocent?" The doctrine of original sin is we(humans) when we are born (after birth), we inherit original sin (from the sin of Adam and Eve). So, since the fetus has not yet been born, this point is moot. The innocent in the womb have not been born, so have not inherited original sin.
Thanks,
Dee
Criss -
ReplyDeleteI know you like to share your intellectual prowess with us all, so you simply can't mean you would like me to be doing something.....anything else.
Here's the thing - first of all, oaks weren't created in the image of God to have dominion over all of the earth. To follow, yes an acorn is the seed of an oak, but the reproduction is entirely different. An oak tree doesn't have an immortal soul (you said you were a Christian, not a pagan). Continuing on, if the seed sprouts, and I uproot it and grind it into the concrete with my heel, I have killed it. If it sprouts, and has leaves, it most certainly is an oak tree albeit a tiny one. If I uproot it and disconnect it from the earth, water and sun and hack it to bits, I have killed it. If it had life, and I ended that life, I have killed it. You are so adamant about your terms, so please agree that ending life (at any stage) is the definition of killing. We don't have to charge that word with emotion. It is what it is.
I stand corrected. The zygotic phase ends at the beginning of the sixth week when it becomes an embryo. Also at the end of the fifth week the embryo has a brain, spine, (beating)heart, and all the major organs are forming. It is separate in the sense that it does not share organs with its mother but has all of it's own. I never made the argument that it could survive outside the womb, but it is a separate individual. Surely you must concede that - I mean your cell phone needs the charger to function, but it's not a charger, yes?
Point to one instance in the Bible where God said it was ok for man to make the decision to kill. Just because we find it acceptable to kill in self defense does not mean that that decision is not a result of sin. Jesus says to 'turn the other cheek', yes? All killing done by mankind is the result of sin, whether we deem it justifiable or not. If Adam had not sinned, there would be no killing. Of course killing in self defense, and killing the defensless are two different arguments.
I have no way of knowing when the soul enters a body. That's what Ecclesiasties tells us. But guess what. Neither do you. But the other passages would lead me to discern and intellectually conclude that it could be at conception.
You cannot add to the passage in Numbers 5 by saying 'it would likely result in a pregnancy'. Maybe her husband had other reasons to suspect. That aside, this passage does not illustrate church sanctioned abortion. It clearly says that the priest puts dust from the temple floor in the water. This would hardly induce an abortion. It also says that if she's guilty of adultery the water is turned bitter. Even when you concede the other assertions - that it causes a miscarriage, and leaves her barren - who caused the miscarriage? The woman didn't terminate her pregnancy. The priest did not terminate her pregnancy. An act of God did, and it was punishment for the sin of adultery. God made the decision. This is not such a hard saying when you consider that when David sinned with Bathsheba, then had her husband murdered, the child that was conceived died after birth. Even for God's elect sin has consequence. God let Satan wipe out Job's family, and Job was an upright and righteous man.
(to be continued)
(continued from above)
ReplyDeleteOnce again, I stand corrected. You are of course right that we are all conceived in sin, but I love knowing that God is able to save unborn zygotes/fetuses/babies from hell, even if they never are born. I hope you find that a comfort, too.
God gave the law to point out our sin. To show us we could never reach Him by our own merit, because no man could ever keep the law. To drive us in repentance to the Grace of Jesus Christ so that we would have the faith to believe in Him.
Oh, I probably would be a little skeptical of biblical scholars who are pro-choice, yes. The ones I have mentioned are certainly renouned for their commentary. I guess that's where I would refer back to the passages about men's wisdom being foolishness to God. The simple answer of course is found in James - 'if any of you lack wisdom, let Him ask God who will give it liberally' (sorry, the paraphrase is mine). Guess we don't even need scholars if we truly seek the wisdom of God.
Anyway Criss......your arguments are a little thin on logic sometimes....but perhaps so are mine. I'm reminded of a verse in a gospel song:
What human intellect can't sway, must be explained away - Earth's wisdom, religions of men. We search without end to feel the Spirit housed within - the simplicity of God somehow escapes men.....
Congratulations on your baby. If you truly are a Christian, I know God will call you out of any error you might be taken by at the present moment. If you are not, then it doesn't matter much anyway. In that case, I pray He grants you faith that leads to repentance. May your fetus grow up to be a great man/woman of faith, blessed by God. Enjoy the enjoyable to the fullest, endure the pukey parts (literally and figuratively). It all goes by too fast and you find you are a granny with all her kids grown who spends too much time on the computer.
L.
- addendum -
ReplyDeleteGod allowed Satan to wipe out Job's family and possessions for the express purpose of bringing all the Glory for all that He gave Job to Himself. This illustrates that all things are given by God and He should receive the Glory....so we probably shouldn't be deciding that the children He gives are inconvenient, ill-timed, or whatever reason we intellectually give for killing those living cells. If we are truly followers of Christ we know that 'all things work together for good to those who love God and are the called according to His purpose'. Here are some passages that indicate children are a good thing according to God. 'as arrows are in the hand of a mighty man, so are the children of your youth - blessed is the man who has a full quiver' - 'children are a heritage of the Lord, and the fruit of the womb is His reward'....... Why anyone want to kill their reward?
"Anyway Criss......your arguments are a little thin on logic sometimes....but perhaps so are mine."
ReplyDeleteExactly. We are both human, and both have that foolishness of "man's wisdom"(sorry for paraphrasing). Neither one of us KNOWS FOR A FACT the "right" way. You have your interpretations, I have mine.
You have strong reasons to believe as you do; I have strong reasons to believe as I do. I respect your right to life your life according to your beliefs (if you were faced with a dangerous pregnancy, like Pam Tebow was, I would not try to pass laws saying you MUST terminate the pregnancy to save your own life; if doctors tried to force an abortion on you "for your own good," I would fight to keep that from happening, if that abortion were against your beliefs, which it sounds like it is).
All I ask is that you allow me to live my life according to my beliefs. And that you allow each woman to live her life, and make decisions about her life, her body, and her medical procedures, according to her personal beliefs.
Because just as you have strong reasons to believe as you do, so do those other women.
"This illustrates that all things are given by God and He should receive the Glory"
Why does "all things are given by God" (and we should therefore follow His will and not change/challenge/modify these things) only apply to the "happy" things? When the doctors found that brain tumor in my brother's brain, should we have just said, "Oh, well. It is God's will... it's not up to us to decide that his early death would be 'inconvenient, ill-timed, or whatever reason we intellectually give for' wanting to save him with any medical intervention possibly available to us"?
It's been a while since I read the Book of Job. Didn't he just accept God's will and all the illnesses that befell him and his family? Or did he run out and find doctors to cure them?
For some people, medical intervention of any kind (such as surgery, radiation, chemotherapy) is a sin, because it goes against God's will and it's pride, on our part, to try to "play God" and decide who lives and who dies. Those people have as valid reasons to believe what they as you have to believe what you do, and as I have to believe what I do.
Dee/Happymom:
Read Leah's comment. "...we are all conceived in sin" -- the fetus has this same original sin "born" babies do.
My congratulations to you and your boyfriend/partner miss cox.
ReplyDeleteAs for all the fear inducing books and such out there not to mention all the anti-choicers/bible thumpers with their wooden nickles...Ignore them and follow your instincts.
As you wisely pointed out, it aint a baby untill its ACTUALLY born...Untill then, its a fetus that may or may not make it depending on factors other than the woman's choice to give birth or not.
Blessed be.
"All I ask is that you allow me to live my life according to my beliefs. And that you allow each woman to live her life, and make decisions about her life, her body, and her medical procedures, according to her personal beliefs."
ReplyDeleteI have absolutely no control (nor do I want it) over how you live 'according to your beliefs'. You clearly have the law on your side, so why do you keep blogging about your beliefs? Thank you! So that you might induce others to share your point of view. I prefer to look at it from a biblical perspective. "Let the older women teach the younger" (Titus). Speaking of mature Christian women helping the less mature. You are the one who claims to be a follower of Christ, so I just thought you might actually consider the word of God to be authoritative.
To espouse belief in the sovereign God necessarily means acceptance that all things, good and bad, are given by Him. We are to 'count as joy various trials' etc. We are given the promise that by doing the will of God things will 'work together for good'. We are promised He 'will never leave or forsake us' and that He will 'hold us up'. Are we to let a devastating diagnosis ride because it's God's will? No way! And we can certainly praise Him for technological advances in the field of medicine that (hopefully) spared your brother from an early death. But to say there was no purpose in your brother having a brain tumor, and that God cannot be glorified in that trial is to deny His sovereignty. Following the same line of biblical reasoning, when we as women are faced with an untimely, inconvenient pregnancy, or a baby with a fatal diagnosis, do God's promises suddenly become null and void?
At the end of Job it says that his condition after the suffering was better than before (also illustrative of the benefit of suffering trials). Again, it is all to bring Glory to Himself.
Killing is wrong. This is abundantly clear in scripture. There is no grey area, and God's truth is not relative - it is absolute, regardless of what you, or I, or anyone says about it. Now, you go on and live your life, blog your blog, have your baby, encourage the use of abortion to relieve the perceived trial and suffering having a baby will cause, and try to find peace. On a human level, I hope you can, because that's just how I am - warm and fuzzy and don't wanna hurt nobody -
"...but be not deceived, God is not mocked - for whatsoever a man sows, that will he also reap"
L.
"You clearly have the law on your side,..."
ReplyDeleteFor now, yes. But it's a constant battle. And much of the law is not "on my side": "the law" here in Texas is abstinence-only programs, not comprehensive sex ed. Which is one of the many things I fight for and blog about.
"...so why do you keep blogging about your beliefs?"
Because I have a right to say my piece. Because there is much work left to do. Because I have a right to share my story. Because people want to hear my story. Because I'm self-centered enough to want to write a blog. Because I like to write. Because this blog is a part of "building my brand" and making a name for myself on the Internet, which will (hopefully) be a helpful selling point when I finally finish and start shopping my novel, based largely on my abortion story.
"And we can certainly praise Him for technological advances in the field of medicine that (hopefully) spared your brother from an early death. But to say there was no purpose in your brother having a brain tumor, and that God cannot be glorified in that trial is to deny His sovereignty."
Exactly.
My brother's cancer brought the family together. I'm not going to bore you with my life's story, but I definitely see a purpose to my brother's tumor, and to his recovery.
That was not my question, however. I brought up that example to show that we use medical interventions to "stop" or change God's will, His "gifts." The same way I used medical intervention to end my first pregnancy.
Just like there was purpose in my brother's ordeal with his brain tumor, I see purpose in my ordeal with my pregnancy. Making the choice to terminate the pregnancy, against the Catholic Church's wishes and against society's "norms," was a huge step for me. That was the first step that started me on the path of confidence and self-esteem I needed to travel in order to leave the abusive relationship I was in. I later stumbled into another abusive relationship, partly because of unresolved issues about the abortion, since I had never felt comfortable enough to talk about it with anyone.
Breaking out of that abusive marriage and talking about my abortion gave me even more strength, confidence, and self-esteem. That's what made me the person I am today. This is why I blog about it. If there is someone out there who felt she couldn't talk about her experience, I want her to read about mine. Seeing others tell their story gives us courage to tell ours.
Just like there was a purpose to my brother's cancer, there was a purpose to my abortion. I'm sure many people will find that statement deplorable, "sick," and "evil," but they haven't been in my shoes, so what leg do they have to stand on to judge my life?
"Killing is wrong."
Okay. Where you and I disagree is on whether or not terminating a pregnancy is "killing." And we are not likely to agree, because we have different beliefs and we interpret Scripture differently.
"...for whatsoever a man sows, that will he also reap."
That is all I ask.
"Untill then, its a fetus that may or may not make it depending on factors other than the woman's choice to give birth or not."
ReplyDeleteBaby's 1st birthday - Until then, its a baby that may or may not make it depending on factors other than my choice to have a 1st birthday party for it or not.
What kind of logic is this? With all due respect, Reverend, from where and in what is your degree in? I'm just having a really hard time understanding Christians that support abortion. Do proabort Reverends support abortion for any and all reasons up until the due date?
I realize that there is a group that supports abortion that call themselves Catholic. However, as a Catholic myself I agree to disagree that this group is not in any way, shape or form Catholic. Are these Catholics openly allowed to become leaders in the Catholic churches, teach students in Catholic schools or teach religious ed to adults or children?
There are obviously Christian churches that are proaborts so why don't these Catholics join those churches instead of claiming to be Catholic?
I too was in a very abusive relationship and became pregnant. The second best thing I've ever done was leave that marriage. The number one best thing I ever did was not buckle to his pressure to abort our wonderful son. I think the only way I could have lived with this decision would have been to become an outspoken proabort like you Criss.
All I ask is that you reflect for awhile that your abortion just might have been a serious sin and that you stop teaching others that abortion is a good thing.
Carol
Carol,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you were able to leave your abusive marriage as well. Your choices worked for you, my choices worked for me.
"Are these Catholics openly allowed to become leaders in the Catholic churches, teach students in Catholic schools or teach religious ed to adults or children?"
I don't know, because I left the Catholic Church a long time ago, but known and repeat pedophiles and rapists are allowed to do all those things. And molest more children. They even get elected to be Pope.
Regarding the Catholic church you say "known and repeat pedophiles and rapists are allowed to do all those things. And molest more children. They even get elected to be Pope"
ReplyDeleteWow. You just accused a Pope of molesting children. Which Pope has raped/molested children?
Making such a terrible accusation without proof to alleviate your own guilt is truly a poor route to take. But it's not surprising and shows how deep your self-hatred goes. My question was nowhere near where you went with it.
How would you like to be accused of molesting children? Oh no. . . Your true colors are appearing. . . . .
Have you not seen the news in the last month or so?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2010/03/26/2010-03-26_before_he_became_pope_benedict_told_german_priest_accused_of_pedophilia_hed_get_.html
(I can send more links, if you need them -- this is just one of MANY -- or you could Google yourself. In fact, if this is news to you, I highly suggest you do.)
I'm sorry, but the man who shields and protects the pedophiles, and sends them back to work with more children, is just as guilty.
The leadership of the Catholic Church is in trouble and in desperate need of reform (and a thorough cleansing). But the pro-choice movement has nothing to do with the Church's problems.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100406/ap_on_re_eu/eu_church_abuse_vatican
ReplyDeleteAccusing someone of something as serious as child rape/covering up rape without knowing absolutely beyond a doubt that they have done this, says more about you than it does about the person you accuse. Did you even read the WHOLE article you pointed out to me? Two sides. . . . Your hate of the Catholic faith is apparent. Maybe this makes you feel better about your selfish decision.
I do not have to accuse you of having an abortion. You have admitted to aborting your child yourself and act as though you are proud of this fact by dedicating all these defenses to it. Does this make you feel better about your decision or are you just trying to lead other women down the path you choose to help ease the guilt?
Until the Pope either admits or is found guilty by our judicial system, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and not slander him (or anyone else for that matter). The fact that you are willing to do so without fully researching both sides, says loads about your character.
Keep talking, we're listening.
I can send you more links of the Pope's innocence if you need them. . . . .
ReplyDeleteBut would it matter? You're so sure your right on the subject of abortion and it seems you don't need proof to accuse others of terrible crimes either.
"My congratulations to you and your boyfriend/partner miss cox.
ReplyDeleteAs for all the fear inducing books and such out there not to mention all the anti-choicers/bible thumpers with their wooden nickles...Ignore them and follow your instincts"
Another true "Christian" who tells you to ignore a whole group of people but you rip on the Pope? This Reverend tells you to follow your instincts? What Christian leader tells you to fall back on yourself and not Christ? Why does he/she not want you to listen to opposing views. Talk about wooden nickels.
Is this the Rev. of your church? If so, he refers to your bf/partner not husband as you have referred to the father of your baby. Is the father of your unborn child your legal husband or a boyfriend?
Carol
When Catholic clergy are going on Larry King Live (or another such show... can't remember exactly and I don't care enough to Google it for you) and says that "it's not pedophilia because the boys were 12-13, so they were post-pubescent" I think that's all the "proof" I need.
ReplyDeleteIf this were an isolated incident, I might understand your disbelief and denial. But it's not, sadly.
"Your hate of the Catholic faith is apparent. "
I do not hate the Catholic faith. I mourn it. I hate the leadership of the Catholic Church, for doing this to its children, and to its believers.
"Until the Pope either admits or is found guilty by our judicial system,..."
I don't know where you live, but I live in the US. Since I don't know where you live, I don't know exactly which judicial system you refer to when you say "our." Perhaps you do live in the Vatican, or in the European countries where these crimes were committed, so when you say "our judicial system" you are indeed referring to a judicial system that would have jurisdiction over the Pope.
I sure hope you don't live in the US, because if you expect the US judicial system to try the Pope (who lives in Vatican City which is its own country) in a court of law for crimes that took place in Germany, then you've stopped making any and all sense.
Wow, Carol. Such... emotion.
ReplyDeleteI do not know Reverend Boony in real life; we have commented on the same posts on Change.org's Women's Rights site several times, and I believe he found my blog through my links there.
So, no, he is not my pastor. My pastor knows my husband and I are legally married (so you can rest easy now), because he's one of the two clergy who officiated the ceremony and signed the legal marriage license.
I think Rev. Boony was being respectful and not trying to assume as to my marital status. I apologize on his behalf for including the word "partner" as a general catch-all and not specifying "legally married husband," since this has caused you some distress. I'm sure that was not Rev's intention.
Wow Criss. Such denial.
ReplyDeleteWhy does the Pope cause you distress? If you no longer belong to the Catholic church what he does should not cause you stress. Easy Cobra. It's none of your business what the Pope does anymore than it's my business that you killed your unborn child.
Don't lose any sleep over Catholic leadership. They don't claim to be perfect nor do they claim child molestation is OK with God. It will be all sorted out and the Body of Christ will be better for it in the end.
Why do you feel the need to apologize for someone else when you can't even apologize for yourself? Wow Criss. Such a lack of emotion.
"If this were an isolated incident, I might understand your disbelief and denial"
ReplyDeleteTurning tables may work with some but not with me. I've never denied (nor defended) that there have been abusive leaders (and laypersons for that matter) in the Catholic church (as I'm sure you are aware they are in all churches, schools, groups, especially places where they can be unsupervised around children).
I called you on saying the Pope rapes children. Yes, you did say this. Uncalled for and very uncool. Makes you feel better doesn't it? I do not condone anyone who molests children but I also speak out against those who falsly accuse others of terrible crimes without concrete proof. An apology is in order but your narcissm probably prevents this.
I can send you more posts if interested. Reverend Boony, Wooden nickels indeed:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZDkxYmUzMTQ1YWUyMzRkMzg4Y2RiN2UyOWIzNDVkNDM=
(check my post - asking you why you keep blogging was a rhetorical question, but thanks for elaborating on my answer)
ReplyDelete"That was not my question, however. I brought up that example to show that we use medical interventions to "stop" or change God's will, His "gifts." The same way I used medical intervention to end my first pregnancy".
Very presumptuous to think you changed God's will. Here's a newsflash - he knew you would abort your fetus/baby/embryo/zygote. And He knew the fetus/baby/zygote/embryo you aborted. He knew Hitler would kill Jews and so on. Everyone has an appointment with death. The ba-fe-zy-em you aborted had an appointment. Does that mean killing is not sin? Nope. Sure it had a purpose in God's plan, and you might not even know the full extent of His purpose, but is killing still a sin? You bet.
When something has life, and potential for continued life, and someone elects to end that life, that is killing.
Kill (kil)
verb (used with object)
1.to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.
Oak trees, sprouted acorns, zygotes, fetuses, babies - if it has life, and you end it, you've killed it. You kill the sprouted acorn, you've killed the oak tree it would have become. You kill a zygote, you've killed the human it was going to become. So it couldn't survive outside the womb? Realistically, neither can a new born baby without the care of someone who desires for it to live.
But sin, not sin, whatever. What is of interest to me is the seemingly fraudulent description of yourself as a Christian. Now settle down.....not because you had an abortion.....but because throughout our discussions you have made it plain that you rely on your own intellect, self-esteem, confidence, and discernment. You have said that you have the ability to stop God's will from happening. You say that God's purpose revealed was that your abortion got you out of an abusive relationship, but you tossed God's promise to His children that in trials He will never leave or forsake, and that His grace is sufficient - you relied on your own understanding and ended the life of your fetus. You have relegated the bible to a useful guide instead of the authoritative word of God. Now, I say 'seemingly' fraudulent because, of course, I am not the Holy Spirit - on the other hand the discernment of spiritual matters as written in the bible would say of Christians "by their fruits you will know them". "But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control; against such things there is no law".
Now, I know a lot of people call themselves Christians who aren't. But I find it particularly offensive when people attach 'Christianity' to a cause that is the antithesis of Christ's teachings. I don't care if you are pro-abortion. One more person being pro-abortion is not going to defeat the cause of Christ, but "pro-abortion Christian" is an oxymoron and misleading to the people you are reaching out to with your cause. Why don't you drop the pretense that you consistently seek out God's will for your life and actions (as one would expect from the indwelling Holy Spirit), and just play it straight by saying Christianity has nothing to do with your point of view?
Tell me - Have you experienced the GRACE of Jesus Christ? What does that mean to you? Can you explain the gospel to me please?(legit question that I'm really interested to hear you answer, and no I'm not looking for a 'sunday school' answer)
"Doubtless you are the [woman], and all wisdom shall die with you"
Read the book of Job, Criss (isn't that the greatest comeback line? Job said it to his stupid pious friends).
Good luck with writing the book. I'd like to read it - but only if I can borrow it from someone - :D
L.
... especially the part in Job where God speaks to him out of the whirlwind.
ReplyDeleteCriss:
ReplyDeleteSince you have a pregnancy ticker at the top of you page, I think it would be interesting for you to make an entry each week showing the developmental stage of your fetus, and then describing the abortive procedure that would be used at this particular time in the pregnancy.
Here is a useful link for a picture. Just an unbiased scientific description of the development of a fetus.
http://www.visembryo.com/baby/12_weeks.html
You could add the picture and description, then something like this - an unbiased clinical description of the abortion procedure used at this stage.
I'm Criss and I'm in my 13th week. The abortion method used at this time would most likely be a D&E, Dilation and Evacuation. Estimates by the Guttmacher Institute say that 11% of all abortions are performed in the second trimester. In 2002 that was 142,000 abortions out of all performed. Sometimes the fetacide is performed before a D & E to soften the bones and tissue. The cervix is dilated, forceps are introduced into the vagina to grab the extremities and parts of the fetus are removed typically starting with the lower extremities. Dismemberment is routinely necessary. The skull is then destroyed and removed followed by suctioning the placenta and remaining contents from the uterus.
Typically the woman is placed under conscious sedation.
In the interest of disclosure and truthfulness, the picture and description of the fetus should be included in the objective description of the medical procedure.
Whatdaya think? Let's make all the facts part of the discourse, eh? The objective is to discuss and demystify abortion thus allowing women to discuss it freely,without stigmatization, right?
Let's start doing it then. If abortion should be a protected right at every stage of pregnancy, and not something to be ashamed of, let's lay it out there, ok? Educate...Educate!
I thought the ticker was interesting myself. I've been pregnant four times and have had many friends who have been pregnant. None of us have had tickers. Might make this baby seem more real to Criss than her last one.
ReplyDeleteRead about you leaving the Catholic Church. Was this before or after you abortion?
ReplyDeleteLatest News Flash
ReplyDeleteCriss is rendered speechless. Miracles still do happen! :)
God Bless you, your husband and baby.
"had I carried the pregnancy to term, I would have been forced, by society and his family, to marry the biological father, and divorce would not have been an option, ever. It would have condemned me and that potential child to a life of emotional abuse and financial distress" says Criss.
ReplyDeleteFunny how you feel you would have had NO CHOICE but to marry the father and in addition divorce would have NEVER been an option. You would have been FORCED to marry this man. But you were able to make the CHOICE to kill this child. What kind of logic can be found in your thinking?
Funny how you pretend to be so strong and that abortion got you out of this situation. It is so obvious that your life is all about you. Did you have no ability to get out of the relationship without aborting? Even if you felt that way at the time, can you admit that there were other less harmful options? In reality you took the easy way out for yourself and you even go as far as stating that you saved that child from a life of abuse and poverty. There is no way possible that you could have accurately predicted what your unborn child's future would hold anymore than you can predict what kind of future your current baby will have. You make yourself into your own God. The only guarantees in life, are there are no guarantees.
Many of us would have gladly raised that child but you couldn't even consider that CHOICE? You are not the victim, your baby was.
I had read the first four comments after my last response, and I was planning on responding to them (pointless as it clearly is). I was going to sit down and do this after hubby (pardon me, my "legally married husband") and I got back from our 12-week appointment with my OB (Thursday afternoon).
ReplyDeleteThat was before we got the news that, according to the sonogram, the fetus likely has a chromosomal abnormality.
If we're lucky, we'll have a child with Downs Syndrome, whom we will love to pieces and back.
If we're not lucky, and it's one of the other two chromosomal abnormalities that are pretty much always fatal, then the doctor will recommend that we terminate the pregnancy.
I took a few days off the Internet while I dealt with this news, but I did want to come back here and congratulate you all: you won. You were right. Gloat away.
According to your logic, God is "punishing" me for my abortion. Just like you said.
Feel free to go back to Jill Stanek's blog and share the good news with her; I know some of you were hoping something like this would happen and mentioned it in her comments section.
Now, with any other population, this would go without saying, but I know my audience, so I'll say it: I'm done entertaining you. I have no use for your hate (I think I got enough up of it already, thanks), nor do I have any use for any fake sympathy you may feel you have to post (if I were in a different frame of mind, it might be good for a laugh, but I'm still not interested). Same goes for "advice" or "words of encouragement" or whathaveyou.
Any new comments on this thread will be deleted, so please don't waste my time or yours.
If you truly have a pressing issue you need to discuss with me, find me on Twitter or Facebook, or look at my profile and find my email address.
I hate to add more to your list of worries but a friend of mine recently did a study on many types of prenatal vitamins and a lot of them claimed to have so much of this and so much of that but the absorbent amount of each wasn't as much as they claimed.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I never took my prenatals and my son turned out just fine. He was also a fetus until I found out he was a boy. That was like finding out I was pregnant all over again. Even still after that sometimes he was just unborn child.
Also I just read some of these comments...I won't say anything about the ignorance instead I wanted to say something to you.
ReplyDeleteI got the chromosome testing and everything was fine. After having my son and educating myself more I realized that a lot of times the testing is wrong. If I ever have another child I won't get it. It's really a horrible thing when you think about it. Either way you worry about it and you never know until you birth your child. I have known people that got it and the doctors said there was something wrong and the kids were fine and vice versa.
Either way I wish nothing but the best for you, your family, the baby, and this pregnancy. My mother had an abortion before she had my sisters and me. It was her choice, her body, and who knows if she didn't do it then there is a chance I wouldn't be here. No one has the right to tell anyone what to do with their life. I know you already know that, just felt like letting you know because being pregnant is crazy emotional.