Saturday, July 10, 2010

THIS is why it's not a baby until it comes out:

Because you can have a biophysical profile at 39 weeks that shows everything is going just the way it should, that you have a happy, healthy fetus, and then two days later -- with no warning, with no indications, with no reason -- you have a stillborn.

Because of my abnormal AFP screen in the first trimester, my OB has warned us that we are at a higher risk for something going wrong (read: stillbirth). This is why I'm getting a sonogram at every appointment, to make sure the fetus is moving the way he should, his heart is beating the way it should, that he's drink-breathing his amniotic fluid (and his pee) the way he should, etc. If he starts to get lazy, lethargic, or his little fetus organs don't look as active as they should, she'll want to induce labor (or go for a C-section) to get the fetus out and fix him.

Just what every pregnant mom wants to hear, right? "Hey, by the way... that baby you thought you were having? Yeah, he's likely to die, for no reason at all, before he's even born. No, we don't know what causes it. No, we don't know how to prevent it. We just know to tell you about it so you can spend the next three four months freaking out."

At our appointment Tuesday, our OB shared the above story. It happened to one of her partner's clients, just the week before.

I'm feeling better now (our appointment was Tuesday morning -- and, of course, this was the first appointment where I only took a half-day off work, same for Freddy. I really needed time to sit with him, talk about all this... but no. Had to rush to work from the doctor's office, without even time for a quick lunch); have had time to process all this and accept it. Sort of.

It's beyond infuriating that I have absolutely no control over this. I do everything I'm supposed to do. I eat good things, have severely limited my intake of processed crap, eat organic fruits and vegetables, don't eat fried crap. I rest, don't exert myself physically (picking up heavy items, etc.), listen to my body when it's tired. I've modified my lifestyle to accommodate this fetus. And now he's going to quit on me for no reason? Make me go through all this, just to wait until the last minute to die for no reason? WTF, fetus??

Now, statistically, the most likely possibility is that everything turns out fine and all this worrying is for nothing. But there's no way of knowing that. There are ways of knowing it's NOT going to be fine (if the biophysical profile comes back with poor results), but even as "good" BPP can't say that everything will be hunky-dory.

Freddy and I both had to go back to work after this appointment (the first time neither one of us took the whole day off -- I had to rush to work from the doctor's office, didn't even have time to eat lunch. Of course, this was also the day we'd done the glucose test, so I'd had nothing to eat all morning except for two hard-boiled eggs and a super-charged artificial-sugar drink), so we had no time to sit and talk about the news.

(It wasn't truly news-news, since we'd already talked at our last appointment about the need for monthly screens until 32 weeks, then weekly screens, to make sure everything was "okay." But when you throw the word "stillborn" in there, especially right after "perfectly normal screen," it changes things a little.)

Freddy and I had started calling Troy Emmitt by his real name, Blanky McBlank, when it was just the two of us. We used his real name when talking about him inside my belly, when talking about his nursery, when talking about what he'd be like when he grew up. We'd started talking about him as if he were a 100% guaranteed, real baby.

I know there's never a guarantee. Even if he's born, he could die of SIDS in the first few weeks after birth. He could catch some easily-preventable disease at the doctor's office, from some kid who's parents believe Jenny McCarthy's crap and decided not to vaccinate their kids. We could get in a car wreck on the way home from the hospital, or on the way to the grocery store, or on the way to daycare. He could get leukemia. There's a bazillion things that could happen.

But in each and every one of those scenarios, before that death happens, I have a baby to have and to hold. I can see his face, look into his eyes, hold him, hug him, SEE HIM before he's gone. I have something before he dies.

When we got home from work that day, I told Freddy, "I want to go back to calling him Troy Emmitt."

Freddy paused for a second, then said, "Okay."

I was going to explain -- I had my speech all rehearsed. But I didn't need to.

"No, I know," he said. "You know it's going to be okay, right?"

"Yes, I know."

Except we don't. But that's okay.

I can deal with losing Troy Emmitt. I know he's going to go away, eventually -- when he becomes Blanky McBlank. But I can't deal with losing Blanky McBlank before I even get a chance to meet him.

This is why it's not "a baby" until it comes out. Because too many things can happen before the fetus finishes doing it's thing. Too many -- wanted -- fetuses never become babies.

This doesn't mean the loss of a wanted fetus is not a terrible, horrible loss -- please don't be that naive or ignorant.

This means that there is a significant difference between a fetus developing inside a woman's uterus, and a baby living outside of it.

65 comments:

  1. It would drive me crazy to be in a position where a good test result could mean nothing. I think it's good that you have a space to rant, and I hope you found time to talk with Freddy about it (if you still needed to).

    As a person without children, it's fascinating to see how parents treat their fetus and baby differently. Just this morning FutureMama (BabyMaking Mama) was talking about how she missed the "baby" (fetus) that was inside of her.

    "As much as I wanted her out I REALLY miss the baby inside my belly. It's weird it's like they were two different people and I lost one."
    http://twitter.com/BabyMakingMama/status/18212560981 (also http://ow.ly/29JNb)

    As far as I know she never considered abortion and never actually lost her fetus- it's just that her baby was born, and to her it's a different person/entity. It seems that's the way it is for many women.

    In the end, I hope your fetus becomes a baby. :-)

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  2. Thanks for this. Someone I know recently had something like that happen to her pretty far along in her pregnancy - just awful.

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  3. All of that could happen. It could all go wrong. All of it. Or. Or you can trust for the next 15 weeks or so that your body and your commitment to a healthy pregnancy will allow you and your husband the very great joy of looking down into the littlest, sweetest face your eyes will ever see.
    I have been pregnant twice, and twice have endured wretched pregnancies and childbirth to now be the exhausted and proud mother of two gorgeous and rather clever children. And you know? I think we're going back for a third time. Why? Because once you get through this pregnancy you'll see that a mother's love is the most fierce and most powerful force on the planet and it will make all of this worth it. I promise. And I never break a promise.

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  4. Criss, you speak gut-wrenchingly well the anguish that's part of the whole package of having a child. And it's good you can face that fear and not hide from it nor pretend it's not real and yours. Now you get to integrate that into the bigger reality that includes the likelihood that your fetus is developing just fine and will be born healthily and will thrive and grow to be an adult. Acknowledging and letting yourself be with the fear is important when it's thrust upon you. And it's just as important to be open to the immediate reality that you have a growing fetus that will be helped the more you can be OK, using all your personal resources - knowledge, faith in a God and spiritual realm beyond our knowledge,, connections with others who love and support you, etc, to trust you can handle whatever comes. Being aware of what we could lose helps us be grateful for what we have (gratefulness is a huge antidote for depression and anxiety). Finding ourselves, through anxiety, staying stuck in anticipatory grief for what can go wrong robs us of enjoying our life as we get to live it in the present, and impedes gratefulness. So much more than any couple who's simply anxious about their pregnancy, you both have been made extremely vulnerable to worry by the news you received as you started out, and all the uncertainly that you bore and realize can't be fully calmed.
    If you stand back though, you can help each other see and stay in touch with the blessing that you have been and continue to be pregnant, and can enjoy feeling your fetus, and knowing Troy Emmet, and doing all you're doing for him. Imagining your worst fears if you are in a place and with someone who can help you contain them and see yourself through them can be ultimately calming. But fixating on them, or letting intrusive thoughts randomly bombard and frighten you will impact your health and the fetus' health. Far from helping deal with any potential loss; it depletes any resilience you have and will need for the future. Focusing on what IS, now, and fully living whatever is good, interesting, heartwarming, tiring, etc. about Troy Emmet will probably be something you'll always be glad you did. People DO miss being pregnant, Troy Emmet is most definitely not Blanky McBlanck. God willing you will be blessed knowing and cherishing both unabashedly.
    I love you (all),
    Mom

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  5. Grady1:27 AM

    I must not have been paying attention and/or haven't talked to you in a while because this was the first I'd heard! Good luck with it! Hope everything works out for you!

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  6. Wishing you the very best--a joyous birth experience.

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  7. Hey, sorry I commented so fast. You don't need to hear anything like what I wrote from anybody who's not been where you are. I haven't been. I was one of the normal risk folks who was very aware of how you can't count on a baby till it's out. With my first pregnancy I didn't even buy baby clothes till I was nearly 8 months pregnant. We hadn't told anybody till I was 3 months, I didn't tell my parents till 6 months! (partly cause of their propensity to anxiety, but partly mine I'm sure.) I know while I thought of you as babies in the womb, I know i never fully counted on everything going well until it had. Having signs of miscarriage isn't the same as what you've gone through.

    So, yeah. I do believe what I wrote. Firing it off was to ease my pain at reading about yours. Now it sounds to me like compressed preaching/advice giving. So hope you can take me with the proverbial grain of salt, and that you are just being gentle with yourself, and having an OK day.
    Love always, Mom

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  8. Wow. As a transsexual woman, I cannot get pregnant but if the technology were ever to come about to implant a uterus into a transsexual woman's body and allow her to carry a baby to term (I'm really hoping for that), I'll grab it at the first opportunity.

    Knowing that the technology is just being explored. Knowing that something is more likely to go wrong since it's not exactly the most developed procedure available. Knowing that if that fetus were to die, it would devastate me.

    But it would be worse if it were a real, live baby that I got to know outside of the womb and it died from other causes.

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  9. Criss, I hope so much that your caution will prove to have been totally unnecessary. Looking forward to being (virtually) introduced to a happy, healthy, 100-percent perfect Blanky McBlank very soon.

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  10. I hear you, Criss. I had no idea you were going through this, so sorry!

    I've had three miscarriages and a recent termination as you know at 21 weeks. I've learned the hard way not to bank on positive pregnancy test = baby to take home at the end of it all. We plan to try again asap and won't be telling anyone again until we get past the 20 week scan and can be reasonably confident. Even then there is no guarantee. It's horrible, but that's how life is! *hugs*

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  11. I always hate hearing about someone going through something like this, especially since I've seen what a stillborn and miscarriages have done to my stepmom and my dad.

    My stepmom shouldn't have been able to get pregnant, but when she did, there were no problems until delivery. Every appointment was fine, and then boom, Charles never started breathing when he came out. My stepmother was devastated; she had to return all the baby shower gifts to Babies-R-Us and had a terrible time getting a refund ("Ma'am, we only give refunds in Jeffery Dollars, for use in the store." "Well, then just keep the damn stuff, I don't need it because my son is dead.") Because of this and 2 miscarriages, my dad waited to tell my siblings and I about my stepmom's last pregnancy until she was 6 or 7 months (they lived pretty far away from us).

    I wish you all the best. Even if I don't know you, I hate seeing people go through these painful experiences.

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  12. Anonymous9:21 PM

    "We'd started talking about him as if he were a 100% guaranteed, real baby."

    what is he now? a fake baby? 80% baby? 50%. Because he's in your womb, that doesn't make him a real baby?

    your baby is ok. This test only notes that a mother is at risk of carrying a baby with a genetic disorder. Many women who experience an abnormal test result go on to deliver healthy babies.


    Karin

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  13. Karin:
    "what is he now?"
    He's A FETUS. (Really, y'all, why is this simple concept so hard to understand??)

    To everyone else:
    Thank you for your kind, sweet words. (I'm feeling much less doom-and-gloomy now than I was when this blog post was created; probably getting the words out helped.)

    Troy Emmitt has been a good little guy and made sure to be very active, kicking and punching and squirming, since I got home from that doctor's appointment. It's like he's telling me, "No worries, Mom. I'm here! I'm gonna make it!" :D

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  14. Anonymous3:10 PM

    You were Mom to the 'little guy/gal' you aborted too Criss. It was like he/she was telling you, "Don't kill me Mom!, I'm here! I want to make it!" :D

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  15. @ Criss
    Congrats on the pregnancy. I know we come from different view points on the abortion issue. I don't really agree with the logic of a fetus isn't a baby. I'd have to argue fetus, baby, toddler, pre-teen, teen, adult, senior etc. are all terms that only refer to where we are on our human development. A fetus is a human being. Perhaps not a "baby" but a human being.

    That aside I always enjoy your writing and will keep you and your fetus in my prayers.

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  16. Whoa Anonymous. Not sure what you thought you'd achieve by that kind of guilt-tripping. :/

    BTW, I had an elevated risk of Downs with Seamus. I know how it feels to be on tenterhooks for half your pregnancy. One reason why I'll never have that test again, I think it causes more worry than it solves *hugs*

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  17. Anonymous4:29 AM

    "Because he's in your womb, that doesn't make him a real baby?"

    No, because if she admits he's a real baby, she can no longer rationalize what she choose to do to her last baby. . . .

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  18. "Because he's in your womb, that doesn't make him a real baby?"

    No, because if she admits he's a real baby, she can no longer rationalize what she choose to do to her last baby. . . .


    Or... because of, like, science and facts and stuff.

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  19. Anonymous10:19 AM

    What does science say about when human life begins? When did you start worrying about the health of the child you are now carrying?

    The human life you aborted was just as precious as the human life you are now carrying.

    Call human life whatever you want, it won't change the fact that you are responsible for the ending of a life that you were also responsible for creating.

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  20. "What does science say about when human life begins?"

    We were talking about baby v. fetus. Inside the uterus: fetus. Outside the uterus: baby. Therefore, to answer Karin's question ("Because he's in your womb, that doesn't make him a real baby?") is YES. Because he's in my womb (also known as "uterus"), he's a real fetus, not a real baby.

    Now, if you want to discuss "human life," we're talking about a much bigger issue. One I have addressed several times in this blog and in comments when other Anonymi have decided to hijack my comment threads with their "clever" questions. If you truly are interested in my answers, please read the blog.

    The question about when the fetus's "life" begins is complex, because before 24 weeks the fetus cannot "live" without taking its life force from the mother. Therefore, is it really "alive"? If you remove it from the mother (befoer 24 weeks, which is when elective abortions, including mine, are performed), it stops living. So was it "alive" before? Or just mooching?

    "When did you start worrying about the health of the child you are now carrying?"

    Before I ever carried it.

    Like most women trying to get pregnant, I started taking prenatal vitamins before I was pregnant. I cut out sodas and other crappy food (which was a huge sacrifice for me) as soon as Freddy and I started trying to conceive. I am well aware that the fetus's health depends solely on my health, its diet is my diet, and I have made changes in my diet and lifestyle to ensure the fetus's health through my health.

    I started "worrying about the health of the child I am now carrying" months before conception took place. So? Are you going to tell me that's when it's "human life" began?

    Again, if you're truly interested in finding out my views on when life "begins" (which is silly, "life" doesn't begin or end, it's a cycle that "began" way back when, when God said "Let there be an amoeba"), look through the archives on the blog and read the posts on that title (if I recall correctly, they were in February 2008. Maybe February 2007?)

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  21. Anonymous3:41 PM

    When did the human life that you paid to abort begin? I didn't ask when this human could live without your body. I asked when the life of the human you aborted began.

    What if the baby you are now carrying needs an incubator after birth? Would you believe whether he was really alive or not to be so "complex"? Some newborns cannot not live without the life force of an incubator. Maybe he wouldn't really be alive but would just be "mooching".

    You are an incredibly and unbelievably arrogant narcissist.

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  22. You asked when science says a human life begins (and I quote: "What does science say about when human life begins?") Science says life is a cycle, no beginning or end (for science, the beginning is the Big Bang. For me, it's when God created the first living cell).

    NOW you are asking me when the life of the fetus I aborted "began." Which I find to be a silly question, since I already answered it: if the fetus cannot survive without siphoning its "life" (oxygen, nutrients) from me, is it really "alive"? I say no. It was a potential life, not developed into a full "human life" yet because it was merely a parasite at that stage.

    If my current fetus is born prematurely and needs an incubator, then I hope there is one available and I hope putting him in an incubator works (I'm at 27 weeks now, so science tells me he'd have an 85% chance of surviving).

    As to the "complexity" of whether or not that premature newborn is "alive", we go back to the basic, original point: a fetus and a baby are two different things. Inside the uterus, outside the uterus. Once it's outside, and breathing, it's alive. Preemies aren't born dead (those are called stillborns) and then suddenly, magically come to "life" when put in an incubator. They're born alive, but need extra help and protection because they're not done gestating.

    PS: an incubator does not have a life force. An incubator is a machine. It is not alive. It's a machine that performs a function that simulates and/or aides the basic functions the human body needs to survive outside the womb (breathing, regulating body temperature, etc.) If you don't understand the difference between a machine (and incubator) and a person (the mother), I really don't think I can help you, dude.

    If I'm such an arrogant narcissist (er... as opposed to those humble narcissists?), then why are you so hell-bent on continuing this conversation with me?

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  23. Anonymous5:56 PM

    "if the fetus cannot survive without siphoning its "life" (oxygen, nutrients) from me, is it really "alive"? I say no."

    So the movements you've felt for months come from something/someone not yet alive. If this fetus is not alive, what is he? But if he siphons oxygen from an incubator and nutrients from a bottle, he is alive, right? He's only dead when he gets oxygen and nutrients from you. I think I follow.

    A fetus is currently dead inside you but this fetus will come to life when he comes out of you and then he will become a real baby.

    "If I'm such an arrogant narcissist (er... as opposed to those humble narcissists?)" Perfect example . . . .

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  24. "If this fetus is not alive, what is he?"

    He's a parasite.

    And please stop equating my (arrogant and narcissistic) body with an incubator.

    If we're going to have this conversation, the first thing that needs to happen is you need to see me (and all women) as A PERSON. Not an incubator.

    Can you spare some of that personhood/humanhood you so vehemently attribute to the fetus, and apply it to the mother?

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  25. Anonymous8:25 AM

    Criss, You are a person with equal inherent worth to all other humans on the planet regardless of their size or where they currently live, including the womb.

    I am a person with equal inherent worth to all other humans.

    Your unborn son is a person with inherent worth to you and me and all other humans as well.

    Your last unborn child was a person with inherent worth completely equal to myself, yourself, the son you are now carrying and all the other persons on our planet.

    It is you who does not see the personhood in humanity. When you advocate abortion, you lessen all of humanity's personhood.

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  26. Anonymous8:26 AM

    "why are you so hell-bent on continuing this conversation with me?"

    Oh yeah, because you're worth it.

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  27. Anonymous8:46 AM

    " "If this fetus is not alive, what is he?"

    He's a parasite. "


    You are carrying a dead parasitic fetus?

    Really Criss, lose the pride already.

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  28. Criss, you get a lot of credit in my book for continuing to put up with the antis. Some of the things they've said here make me want to go "HOW DARE YOU!?" But you just calmly respond. Kudos for keeping your cool.

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  29. Hey Criss, I came back to your post to see how it was going for you and the baby (yes, i'll refer to him as a baby). Glad he is cooperating, and sincerely hope it continues that way. Sorry to see the cruelty that anyone would put you through at a time like this. Not all of us are like that.

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  30. Anonymous10:49 AM

    Cruelty? Some of us speak the truth and don't downplay the effects that anti-lifers have on other innocent unborn babies that are just like the one Criss is now so worried about.

    Criss's words: "But in each and every one of those scenarios, before that death happens, I have a baby to have and to hold. I can see his face, look into his eyes, hold him, hug him, SEE HIM before he's gone. I have something before he dies."

    I, I, I, I. Not ONE word about what HE may be feeling or about the pain HE would be experiencing. No concern about what HE may be going through but only that she get something from him.

    If someone forced her to do to this baby what she did to the last one, she would understand what cruel was only in the sense of what SHE feels. Not because she'd be worried about this child's pain, but because she'd have lost something she wanted. She didn't want the last child. In the end, it's all about what she wants, not about anyone else.

    If Criss admitted that what I am saying is indeed cruel, she'd also have to admit what she did to her last baby was wrong in so many ways. How can what I say be cruel, if nothing is wrong with abortion?

    Criss doesn't admit to being wrong and if you see me as being cruel, it is nowhere as cruel as choosing to kill your own fetus.

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  31. "You are a person with equal inherent worth to all other humans on the planet..."

    Seriously??

    How? Since when?

    That sounds all nice and pretty, but it's utter blahblah. What worth do I have to children dying of starvation on the other side of the planet? What worth do I have to children dying of starvation in my same zip code?

    I can only possibly have value or worth to the people with whom I interact (and, trust me, many of them would much rather I HAD been aborted. You can start by taking a quick poll of my coworkers).

    Geez, and I'm the one who's a narcissist???

    At least I have accepted that the world, and all of humanity, does not revolve around ME and my "inherent worth" to all of humanity.

    For cryin' out loud...

    "Oh yeah, because you're worth it."

    Sorry, Revlon already took that tag line.

    "You are carrying a dead parasitic fetus?

    Really Criss, lose the pride already."

    I'm carrying a parasite, who is only alive because it takes its life from me (and harms me in the process, which is why I need to take prenatal vitamins, watch my diet, watch my physical activity, etc., to make sure that I get what I need while it gets what it needs).

    It's not pride, it's science. Sorry if facts confuse you. (Should I expect much from someone who get hir talking points from hair-coloring commercials?)

    "I, I, I, I. Not ONE word about what HE may be feeling or about the pain HE would be experiencing. No concern about what HE may be going through but only that she get something from him."

    A) It's my blog. Duh. Of course I'm going to talk about how things affect me. (Do you understand the basic concept of a personal blog?)

    B) The fetus I aborted was aborted at 13 weeks. Fetuses don't feel anything before 24 weeks.

    C) Should I stick a microphone up my vagina and let my fetus talk about his feelings at my next therapy session? How does he feel about being a stillborn? IS THERE ANYTHING I CAN DO TO PREVENT HIS STILLBIRTH WHEN THE DOCTORS CAN'T EVEN TELL ME WHAT COULD POSSIBLY CAUSE IT?

    Thou hast jumped off the deep end here. Been nice chatting with you.

    "If Criss admitted that what I am saying is indeed cruel"

    You're still far off the deep end, but I never said anything about you being cruel. I know facts and reality are an optional concept for y'all, but just wanted to clarify before you try to put words in my mouth.

    You aren't "cruel," you're just horribly annoying. (And seem to have a feeble grasp of English vocabulary. But then again, I'm just an "arrogant narcissist," so what would I know?)

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  32. Anonymous1:36 PM

    You missed the whole point about inherent worth Criss. It is not about our worth to each other as in your unwanted fetus was worth nothing to you but this wanted fetus is worth something to you.

    Your unborn son and the unborn fetus you aborted both have inherent worth because of their humanity.

    I meant inherent worth as in we shouldn't kill people based on what they are worth to ourselves and others. All humans have inherent worth just for the fact that they ARE HUMAN. I didn't mean that you have any direct worth to me or vice-versa or we have direct worth to starving kids across the world (although I'd like to believe at least some of my contributions to Food for the Poor are reaching hungry kids).

    You, me, starving children and the unborn are WORTHY of life because of their HUMANITY, not because they are directly worth something to you, me, and others specifically and directly. They (and both you and I) have inherent worth because they/we exist and are human.

    I'm not here to impress you with my grasp of the English vocabulary. You already pointed out this mistake once thank you and now you point it out again. If it makes you feel better about yourself, by all means, point it out again (and my many other mistakes regarding writing if it boosts your fragile ego). I'm guessing your coworkers get darn tired of it.

    Thanks for letting the Justsnapd8 know that I am not cruel. I take pride in my treatment of others but also realize I can annoy others that I make uncomfortable. You are cruel as well as and annoying.

    As for fetus not feeling pain before a certain age, there is no way you can beyond a reasonable doubt prove that. This could be true or not. Again, if it makes you feel better, state it over and over. It won't change the fact that unborn humans have inherent worth at all stages from conception to birth.

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  33. Anonymous1:47 PM

    "Should I expect much from someone who get hir talking points from hair-coloring commercials?"

    I was around when these commercials came out. I know a bit of the history surrounding the statement. I see you don't.

    Again, cut me down "if it makes you happy."

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  34. "As for fetus not feeling pain before a certain age, there is no way you can beyond a reasonable doubt prove that."

    You're right. I cannot prove it because I'm not a doctor or a scientist and I do not have the skills, knowledge, experience, or resources to conduct the experiments that prove it. But I have enough sense to listen to the experts that do.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2010/jun/25/human-foetus-no-pain-24-weeks

    http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2010/06/25/Report-No-fetal-pain-before-24-weeks/UPI-54551277494533/

    http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfactor/archive/2010/06/25/study-reveals-no-fetal-pain-before-24-weeks.aspx

    http://pregnancy-blog.parentingweekly.com/2010/06/no-fetal-pain-before-24-weeks.html

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10403496

    And so on, and so forth...

    Going back to your "inherent worth" just because I'm human: pretty words, but they still don't mean anything.

    Do child rapist have this same inherent worth? You're going to have a hard time convincing me of that one.

    But even if you could convince me: why does the fetus's potential inherent worth (because so many things can happen -- naturally, with no abortions or interventions -- before it's born and becomes an extra-uterine human being) trump the woman's? When it comes down to one or the other, as it usually does when we're discussing abortion, why do you always side with the fetus?

    PS: keep annoying me "if it makes you happy."

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  35. Anonymous2:17 PM

    Yes, a child rapist has the same inherent worth as a mother who kills her unborn child. These two people have the same inherent worth as people who make mistakes in their writing and annoy others. This person has the same inherent worth as a hungry child. They are all HUMAN and have INHERENT WORTH. I don't have enough of a grasp of the English language to state this in any simpler way for you.

    I have learned that because someone states they are an 'expert' and others believe they are an 'expert' doesn't make it so. Experts recently stated a newborn felt no pain during circumcision.

    But the pain argument is only used to ease anti-lifer's guilt and doesn't matter anyway. Human life begins at conception and has inherent worth from that point on.

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  36. "Anti-lifers" are people who commit suicide.

    So, just because you say so, these experts who have proven their statements by backing them up with research and who are recognized by several independent and credible news organizations as experts... are not "really" experts?

    So who DO you listen to, then?

    (Again, I'm the one who's arrogant...)

    I can't continue a conversation with someone who has such a feeble grasp on reality. I'm sorry facts offend you. For your sake, I do suggest you stop coming back here -- I tend to dabble in that "logic" and "coherent thought" stuff that seems to be against your beliefs.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Anonymous3:21 PM

    ""Anti-lifers" are people who commit suicide."

    Says expert Criss L. Cox ROTFLMAO!

    "For your sake, I do suggest you stop coming back here"

    For my sake? ROTFLMAO again! Why not just block me like most of the other pro-death crowd does when they are backed in a corner?

    "Again, I'm the one who's arrogant"
    Admitting it is half the battle Criss. Good luck with the other half.

    ReplyDelete
  38. Damn if you can't write, Criss. My thoughts are with you and Freddy and Blankety McBlank (Troy Emmett.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Anonymous11:19 AM

    "Yes! We should, but there is evil in the world. We can't just ignore it!

    But some people are evil, whether it's nature or nurture. It exists. And it's a sad fact."

    You are so right! There is evil in this world and that's why we keep coming back to you antilifers in hopes you will deal with your own evil nature. Is your evil caused by nature or nurture do you think?

    ReplyDelete
  40. Dude, if you're going to stalk me, at least have the decency to do it properly. I'm not the one who said the quoted text. I was the one arguing against the person who said that. #goodjob

    ReplyDelete
  41. Anonymous7:10 PM

    Sorry. I should have known you would be arguing against the person stating that there is evil in the world. After all, if you admit rapists are evil, you might have to admit abortion is evil too, dude.

    Stalking? Everything really is all about you isn't it?

    ReplyDelete
  42. Anonymous10:58 AM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CueAbWZAGgI

    ReplyDelete
  43. Reedin comprehenshun skillz: u no haz dem.

    Had you been following the conversation, you'd have realized I was saying PEOPLE are not good/evil. The world is not black and white, or good and evil. It would be a heck of a lot simpler if it were, wouldn't it?

    People are people. People are complex. People are not two-dimensional characters who are all "evil" or all "good." People make choices that can be positive or negative, have positive or negative consequences, or affect different people in different ways.

    "if you admit rapists are evil, you might have to admit abortion is evil too, dude."

    Really? WHY? Can you explain the connection? (Especially in cases where the rapist causes the pregnancy that requires the abortion??)

    So, if I admit ONE thing is "evil," I have to admit ALL things are evil?? Logic leap much?

    I don't have the numbers at the tip of my fingertips at the moment, and this conversation is not worth the time it would take me to Google them, but pregnancy kills women on a daily basis. Right here, in the grand ol', first-world, industrialized, "civilized" U.S. of A.

    So, by your "logic," is pregnancy "evil"?? It kills women on a daily basis. WAY MORE than abortion does.

    Abortion saves women's lives. I see that as a "good" thing -- how can you call something that SAVES WOMEN'S LIVES "evil"??

    "Stalking? Everything really is all about you isn't it?"

    Apparently, it is. I mean, you keep coming back here. Don't you have anything better to do with your time?

    Get a hobby. Go volunteer at a women's shelter, help some of those women you want to force to go through pregnancy. Go volunteer at an orphanage, see what happens to those babies you want to force into the world.

    Find something productive to do with your time, go care for some "post-born fetuses."

    ReplyDelete
  44. Anonymous3:17 PM

    Why do I annoy you so much? First you pick on my writing now it's my reading comprehension. Do you only want visitors that agree with you on everything? You get quite angry with those who disagree with you. Why is that?

    Abortion is evil. Rape is evil. Telling lies is evil. Theft is evil. Abuse is evil. Some people who do evil have to face consequences like jail time. Others who do evil have other consequences they will eventually have to face.

    Some things in this world are black and white.

    Just because you don't think my time here is productive, doesn't make that true. We are all sent to do different jobs.

    You're one of mine. Remember? You're worth it.

    ReplyDelete
  45. "Why do I annoy you so much?"

    Because you won't go away. (And while we're at it, because you can't be bothered to show your face. I stand by what I believe, I put my face and my name to it. What are you afraid of?)

    "First you pick on my writing now it's my reading comprehension."

    You're attempting to have a conversation with me IN WRITING. Coherent writing and reading comprehension skills are kind of, um, necessary if you're going to engage in written interaction.

    "Do you only want visitors that agree with you on everything?"

    No, I want visitors who make sense. And pay attention. And with whom I can have productive, intelligent conversations.

    "You get quite angry with those who disagree with you. Why is that?"

    Who's being arrogant now? I'm not angry, I'm annoyed. I get that way when I have to repeat myself over and over, answering the same boring talking points I've addressed several times before.

    "Some things in this world are black and white."

    That is your ignorance and privilege speaking. (Er, typing.)

    "Just because you don't think my time here is productive, doesn't make that true."

    Just because you think your time here is "productive" doesn't make it true, either. Do you think you're going to change my mind? Make me start crying and regretting my abortion? Seriously??

    What is your purpose? What about this inane back-and-forth is "productive" in your black-and-white eyes?

    "You're one of mine. Remember? You're worth it."

    Thanks, Revlon.

    Now, what about those parentless children rotting in orphanages and being bounced around foster homes? Why aren't they worth it, too? Why is THIS how you choose to spend your "productive" energy?

    ReplyDelete
  46. Anonymous4:35 PM

    Knowing my real name won't make your choice to kill your child any less evil.

    Picking on me and calling me names won't make your choice to kill your child any less evil.

    Not crying or regretting your abortion won't make your choice to kill your child any less evil.

    What I do or don't do with my time won't make your choice to kill your child any less evil.

    Never referring to this baby as a baby won't make your choice to kill your last baby any less evil.

    Abortion is an evil choice just as rape is an evil choice.

    Abortion is evil.

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anonymous9:40 AM

    "Abortion saves women's lives. I see that as a "good" thing -- how can you call something that SAVES WOMEN'S LIVES "evil"??"

    So if you hadn't aborted your child, you would have died?

    Your prodeath thinking is what is flawed and filled with rationalizations.

    Augustine

    ReplyDelete
  48. Augustine,
    "So if you hadn't aborted your child, you would have died?"

    I'm not going to try to play God and tell you what definitely would or would not have happened. I can definitely tell you that I had a much higher chance of dying from pregnancy or childbirth than from an abortion.

    I can tell you that my lifestyle during my first pregnancy was very unhealthy, especially compared to how I live and eat now. Therefore, chances were not good for me or the fetus.

    I also am aware now of my mental illness and I am receiving treatment for it, both taking medication and going to therapy. Give this information, added to the fact that during that first pregnancy I was in an abusive relationship that I would have been forced to marry into (till death do us part), and my chances of survival drop even more. You probably would have read about me on the news, one of those moms who killed their own newborn and then either called 911 crying to confess or killed themselves.

    When I made the statement you quoted I was referring to the thousands of abortions that are performed to save the woman's life, sometimes after the fetus has already "died" or stopped functioning. I was not referring to my specific situation, but since you brought up the question, it made me think about it and, yes, it is likely that my abortion saved my life.

    If we're going to talk in absolutes, and pretend the world is simple, two-dimensional, and black-and-white, then how can something that is used to save women's lives be called absolutely "evil"?

    That's ignorant and small-minded.

    ReplyDelete
  49. Anonymous10:06 AM

    Criss,

    Either abortion is evil or it isn't. This doesn't mean that anyone who has an abortion is all evil anymore than a bank robber is all evil.

    You state you would probably be dead had you not aborted. Our society should be helping women who are in abusive relationships, have mental health issues and not taking care of themselves, not aborting their children. I do realize that is not always the case but some don't even look for help because they really don't want it anyway. You make the case that women who abort NEED help, NOT abortion.

    I believe that you would have definitely been helped had you asked it from a prolife group but your hatred of anyone prolife is evident.

    What about women who are heathy and in no danger of death that abort? Is abortion evil then? What about a women who is financially well-off but aborts because her boyfriend says he will leave her if she doesn't? Is abortion evil in this case? Abortion, like suicide, is a permanent solution to a temporary situation.

    To believe that abortion will help someone escape from mental illness, bad habits and abusive relationships is ignorant and small-minded. In most cases, abortion prolongs these issues. You could have gotten the help you needed even if you had the baby. You state you are not going to play God now, but you played God with your child's life then.

    You say you probably would have been one (very, very small percentage) of the moms who killed their newborns. I see this as total rationalization on your part since you could have given up the baby for adoption.

    In any case I am very proud of you for getting mental health care and being willing to talk about it. I hope you keep a strong support system around you after your son is born to ensure his safety.

    I do wish you the very best with the little guy who is about to join your family! He will bring you more joy than you can imagine.

    ReplyDelete
  50. "I do realize that is not always the case but some don't even look for help because they really don't want it anyway."

    OR... they don't realize they NEED help. Because that's what abusive partners do -- they play headgames, and tell you the problem is all you, not them... that nobody else will love you because you are so [insert insult here], and they are the only one who will put up with you.

    OR... they are too afraid to ask for help. Because the abusive partner threatens them with physical force. Or maybe he doesn't threaten, he goes ahead and hits already.

    OR... they don't know where to turn. They are not aware of the resources available to them. They refuse to admit they need that help, because of the stigma attached to it -- see "victim-blaming."

    "You make the case that women who abort NEED help, NOT abortion."

    No, YOU are trying to make that case. I told you about MY unique, particular situation, because you asked about MY unique, particular situation.

    You prefer to view the issue through your black-and-white, all-or-nothing, privileged, rose-colored glasses.

    Women who need an abortion NEED AN ABORTION.

    "I believe that you would have definitely been helped had you asked it from a prolife group but your hatred of anyone prolife is evident."

    My hatred for intolerant, condescending, oppressive groups SHOULD be evident. However, I never attributed these things to "pro-life" groups until AFTER I had my abortion and began informing myself on the issue.

    "What about women who are heathy and in no danger of death that abort?"

    Who are you to make this call?

    You do not know her reasons. And you don't need to know them. It's not your place, it's not your business.

    You are not that woman, and you have no right to tell her what she thinks, what she feels, how she'll react, or what she can and can't do.

    (Just wondering... are you one of those who think stuff like depression is just "the blues" and we should just quit moping and get happy?)

    "What about a women who is financially well-off but aborts because her boyfriend says he will leave her if she doesn't? Is abortion evil in this case?"

    A woman who is forced to have an abortion because of an abusive boyfriend is a victim. The "evil" in this scenario is not the abortion, it's the boyfriend.

    "To believe that abortion will help someone escape from mental illness, bad habits and abusive relationships is ignorant and small-minded."

    Really? Because that's what happened to me.

    Making that decision and going through with it is what helped me realize my strength. It helped me believe in myself and my convictions. It gave me the power to make my own decisions about my life, and that's how I was able to move out of those abusive relationships (and the headgames), and get where I am today.

    "In most cases, abortion prolongs these issues."

    Do you have any research to back up this claim? Because in my experience -- not just my personal experience, but talking to many other women who've had an abortion -- I've found the opposite to be true.

    ReplyDelete
  51. "You could have gotten the help you needed even if you had the baby."

    Yes, I also COULD win the lottery.

    Are you referring to financial help? Because I live in Texas. We don't like to give people welfare 'round these parts.

    Same with mental health services... and please, don't even get me started on the foster care system. My mom works in it, I know the ugly details all too well.

    "I see this as total rationalization on your part since you could have given up the baby for adoption."

    Really? I could have?

    WOW! You know me so much about me! After reading ONE BLOG POST!

    No, I could not ever have given my child up for adoption. Ever. I have known this since way before I ever got pregnant. I am not physically, mentally, or emotionally capable of carrying a fetus for nine months and then giving that child away. I certainly would have committed suicide if I'd been forced to do that. I would have lived under a bridge eating grass with my baby before giving it away for adoption. TRUST ME.

    My options were to terminate the pregnancy, or have a baby. I am thankful that I was able to make the right decision, unpleasant as it was. I am proud of myself for making the decision that was right for me and for that potential child.

    ReplyDelete
  52. Anonymous8:26 AM

    "I am thankful that I was able to make the right decision, unpleasant as it was."

    It was not the right decision if it was unpleasant. If nothing was wrong with aborting your child, it could be no more unpleasant than a pap.

    I work with foster families as well. Do you think these children would be better off dead?

    Many women have babies with abusive men and don't regret not killing their children together.

    How selfish to not want to give up a child but instead be willing to kill that same child. You say you'd be willing to live under a bridge with your baby but just six months earlier you're willing to pay someone to rip him/her apart?

    If you are on meds and seeing a counselor, the mental health issues are obviously still present and may be for life so getting an abortion did not further you in that area.

    Re-read your words and count how many rationalizations you have for your abortion. When you terminated your pregnancy, you killed your baby. Period.

    ReplyDelete
  53. "If nothing was wrong with aborting your child, it could be no more unpleasant than a pap."

    Getting a pap is unpleasant, too.

    My brother had a brain tumor removed. That was HIGHLY unpleasant, for him and for us. Was that the wrong thing to do, then? Should we have let the tumor kill him, because having your skull sawed open to remove part of your brain is unpleasant?

    All that aside, the part you're not getting is that there is no "pleasant" solution to an unwanted pregnancy.

    The abortion experience (dealing with the protesters, believing them enough to think I had to hide it from my family -- who gave me nothing but love and support once I finally "came out" to them, sitting in the recovery room and wondering if someone was going to try to bomb the building that day; the operation itself was painless and not really memorable) may have been unpleasant, but the alternative(s) would have been hell.

    "Do you think these children would be better off dead?"

    Yes, I think some of them would have been better off had they never been born at all. Especially those that die from abuse.

    "Many women have babies with abusive men and don't regret not killing their children together"

    Many more women abort unwanted pregnancies and don't regret it.

    "You say you'd be willing to live under a bridge with your baby but just six months earlier you're willing to pay someone to rip him/her apart?"

    It would have taken a lot less than six months of eating grass under a bridge to kill both the potential child and me.

    "If you are on meds and seeing a counselor, the mental health issues are obviously still present and may be for life so getting an abortion did not further you in that area."

    A) Thanks for being dismissive AND clueless about mental illness.

    B) I am no longer seeking abusive relationships. I consider that a plus. My self-esteem and self-worth EXIST now; they did not prior to the abortion. (Er, that's why I kept seeking those abusive relationships. Are you starting to get how this works?)

    C) BECAUSE I am on medication and in therapy, my depression and anxiety are under control. I can live a "normal" life and be happy.

    Mental illness is something you LIVE WITH, it's not something you "cure." It's not like strep throat, where you take your antibiotics and you rest and then you're "done" with it.

    Perhaps a little information BEFORE you start lecturing people on topics about which you're completely ignorant might help your debate skills.

    ReplyDelete
  54. Anonymous11:24 PM

    I told you I work with foster families. I did not tell you in what capacity so you are a bit premature (as usual) in assuming that I know nothing about mental illness. I am sure you have heard over and over that you are judgemental and assuming and you even admit to bossiness and others best "watch out." What a tough girl act. I've read most of your posts before commenting, so I know much more about you than vice-versa. From reading your posts, I can see that in most cases, you jump the gun and rip on others before you know the first thing about them.

    "My self-esteem and self-worth EXIST now; they did not prior to the abortion." You seriously believe there is a correlation between the two? I'd be interested in knowing who your counselor is and what his/her certification is and if they attribute your 'healthy' self-esteem to abortion.

    "All that aside, the part you're not getting is that there is no "pleasant" solution to an unwanted pregnancy." No, your not getting it. You are telling me and all the high percentage of men and women who have survived crisis pregnancies without killing their children that their children are not a pleasant result of a difficult situation?

    "Yes, I think some of them would have been better off had they never been born at all. Especially those that die from abuse."

    So if you or I or our children ever die from abuse in the future, our lives were not worth living? Wait, you've already claimed to have survived abuse. . . . .

    You've already admitted to probably being "one of those moms who killed their own newborn and then either called 911 crying to confess or killed themselves" so I hope you stay in treatment and have help with your baby. I hope your husband and the counseling staff has been made aware of your feelings. I am truly fearful for your baby's safety.

    Again, not interested in what you think of my debating skills nor my grasp of the English language, nor my writing mistakes. But "if it makes you happy" continue your ripping.

    ReplyDelete
  55. Anonymous11:30 AM

    "Many more women abort unwanted pregnancies and don't regret it."

    No stats on this. But even if this statement is true and I disagree that it is, the question remains: Just what do the number of sociopathic postabortive women have to do with the overall morality of abortion?

    ReplyDelete
  56. "I told you I work with foster families. I did not tell you in what capacity so you are a bit premature (as usual) in assuming that I know nothing about mental illness."

    I don't care where you work or with whom; if you believe what you have written, then you don't get it. You may think you get it, which makes me worry for the people you work with, but just because you think you're right doesn't make you right. Sorry.

    "You seriously believe there is a correlation between the two?"

    Um, YEAH. That's why I keep saying it.

    Thanks for dissin' my therapist. I'm sure she'll be all torn up that some nameless voice on teh Internetz questioned her professional integrity.

    "You are telling me and all the high percentage of men and women who have survived crisis pregnancies without killing their children that their children are not a pleasant result of a difficult situation?"

    Where did you get this?? Can you TRY to make sense?? The leap of logic here is so incredibly astronomical I feel ashamed using the word "logic" to refer to it.

    See what happens when you insist the world is black-and-white? YOU SAY STUPID SH!T.

    I'm telling you how I feel about MY situation. This in no way translates into "the exact opposite of my situation must be true for people who do the opposite of what I did."

    I admire women who have faced an unplanned pregnancy and chosen to carry it to term and raise a child lovingly. My sister is one of these women, and I am in awe of her and her daughter daily.

    I admire women who have carried an unwanted pregnancy to term and given the child up for adoption. They have a strength I know I do not have nor could I ever achieve.

    I know neither of those options was going to work for me. That's why I made my choice. I'm happy with my choice, so I don't feel the need to challenge anyone else's.

    All I ask is that I be allowed to make my choice.

    People like you refuse to let me have my choice. You feel the need to judge, call names, insult, harass, and leave annoying anonymous comments instead of choosing to LET IT GO and allow women like me to live our lives, as we allow you to live your lives.

    "I am truly fearful for your baby's safety."

    That's because you don't know how to read. And because you see the world as either-or, black-and-white. You refuse to understand how complex life truly is, and how complex individuals truly are.

    "Again, not interested in what you think of my debating skills nor my grasp of the English language, nor my writing mistakes. But "if it makes you happy" continue your ripping."

    You know what my momma always said? "It takes two to tango."

    This is my blog; it's kind of my job to respond to comments. I'm just being a good hostess by taking the time to respond to your self-righteous, judgmental drivel.

    So that's why I'm here. Why are you here? Don't you have better things to do than argue with a "postabortive sociopath"?

    ReplyDelete
  57. Anonymous1:40 PM

    oh criss - will you PUHLEEEEEZ stop saying a fetus is a parasite!!!! Whatever else you believe or support, please quit saying that......any MEDIOCRE biologist/scientist/whatever will tell you that a fetus is not a parasite. Parasites do not feed off of their own species, and they typically are detrimental host (and please don't tell me fetuses cause harm to their mothers - only in aberrant cases, not as a natural process).

    This assertion damages your appearance of intellectual credibility.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anonymous1:41 PM

    *detrimental TO their host

    ReplyDelete
  59. Anonymous9:59 AM

    Criss said, "All that aside, the part you're not getting is that there is no "pleasant" solution to an unwanted pregnancy."

    Then Anon said, "You are telling me and all the high percentage of men and women who have survived crisis pregnancies without killing their children that their children are not a pleasant result of a difficult situation?"

    Criss replied, "I'm telling you how I feel about MY situation. This in no way translates into "the exact opposite of my situation must be true for people who do the opposite of what I did.""

    No, Criss, what you said and I (Augustine) QUOTE is "that there is no "pleasant" solution to an unwanted pregnancy."

    You continue to ask others why they are here and some tell you because they care and that still is not good enough. Prolifers come here because they care about the unborn (and you) and the effect your rantings may have on other young women facing difficult but definitely surmountable circumstances.

    You are the one with the black and white thinking.

    Augustine

    PS BTW, It doesn't always take two to tangle. Rape and abortion immediately come to my mind. Sorry, but not even Momma's are always right.

    ReplyDelete
  60. "they typically are detrimental host (and please don't tell me fetuses cause harm to their mothers - only in aberrant cases, not as a natural process)."

    Really? Only in aberrant cases?

    Is that why I have to go through all this preventative care to make sure the parasite does not strip my body of the vitamins, minerals, and nutrients I need to survive?
    Is that why my body is in a constant state of fatigue, which affect my ability to do my job, which affects my ability to KEEP said job and continue to get paid for it, something I kind of need to keep a roof over my head and food in my mouth... food I need in greater quantities now that I'm pregnant, because this parasite feeds off what I feed?

    Why do half the baby books I've read refer to the fetus as "the perfect parasite"? How come they get to say it and I don't? NO FAIR!

    ReplyDelete
  61. Augustine,
    An unwanted pregnancy, an unplanned pregnancy, and a crisis pregnancy are three very different things.

    I had an UNWANTED pregnancy. There is no pleasant solution to that. Not every UNPLANNED pregnancy is UNWANTED. People who choose to carry the pregnancy to term and keep the child did not have an UNWANTED pregnancy, they had an UNPLANNED pregnancy.

    A "crisis" pregnancy is a third category that can apply to wanted, unwanted, or unplanned pregnancies, depending on what you consider a "crisis."

    If the pregnancy is carried to term and all parties are healthy and the parent decides to keep the child, the children can very well be quite pleasant. The experience of dealing with the "crisis" of the unplanned pregnancy, however, is not a pleasant one.

    You can't use the word "crisis" and the word "pleasant" to describe the same situation.

    A pregnancy and a child are two different things.

    Anon's comment made no sense because it was a huge leap. Because a pregnancy and a child are two different things.

    "PS BTW, It doesn't always take two to tangle. Rape and abortion immediately come to my mind."

    ARE YOU EFFIN' SERIOUS?? How obtuse can you possibly be??

    "It takes two to tango" is an expression where the "tango," literally a style of dance typical of Argentina, is a METAPHOR for an argument, which is what is happening here. And it keeps going on, and on, and on, and on, forever and ever, because TWO (or more, who knows how many Anonymi there are... way too many, in my opinion...) people keep the argument (or "tango") going.

    Rape is a crime.

    Abortion is a medical procedure.

    Neither one of those is an argument, or in any way remotely resemble the argument/discussion going on here. So, A) why are you bringing them up?? and B) at least two people are required for rape to happen, unless you're suggesting a person can rape herself? (A woman can harm herself to attempt to abort without the aid of someone else, but most of the time there is a doctor involved, plus a few nurses.) So... I'm utterly confused, because your examples fail at getting the point of the original statement, AND they fail at being factually accurate.

    ReplyDelete
  62. Anonymous3:43 PM

    "A pregnancy and a child are two different things."

    Every child is a result of a pregnancy and every pregnancy involves two or more human beings.

    Keep rationalizing.

    Cha, Cha, Cha.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Never argued any of that.

    Every child is a result of a pregnancy: true. Never said it wasn't.

    I said they were not the same thing.

    Pooping is the result of digesting, but they're not the same thing. They are two different processes. It is perfectly acceptable for me to digest in the middle of a crowded restaurant, but it is highly unacceptable for me to poop in the middle of a crowded restaurant.

    Now, about pregnancy involving two or more human beings... what about the fetus? Isn't your argument that the fetus is a full-fledged human being?

    If so, every pregnancy should involve THREE or more human beings, no? The owner of the sperm, the owner of the egg and uterus, and the resulting zygote/embryo/fetus.

    I'm not rationalizing, I'm making sense. You should try it some time.

    Maybe your problem is multi-tasking. You shouldn't cha-cha while you're dancing the tango.

    ReplyDelete
  64. Anonymous11:43 PM

    Anonymous:

    You ARE wasting your time.

    Yes, Criss does rationalize. Reading between the lines, you will see that she regrets aborting her first child, but she hasn't been able to make the connection with repentance freeing one from guilt. Therefore, she has to elevate the offense to acceptable, otherwise she is without excuse.

    Here's my advice - quit commenting. Commenting only allows her to climb on her platform and spew pro abortion talking points. Who thinks these up, anyway? (yeah Criss, I know - enlightened pro choice women - the only ones who have ever experienced pregnancy under difficult circumstances and the only ones who have had 'meaningful' abortions....blah,blah,blah) My personal favorite is the ATHEIST that gives the biblical defense of abortion that all of the 'pro choice Christians' use. LOL

    If you stop commenting on pro abortion blogs the writers only get to hear the sound of their own voice and that of the choir that agrees with them, and you have not been responsible for giving them a platform.

    Now granted, Criss has a fair command of style and usage. Of course if yours isn't quite as polished, and when her argument can not be substantive, she resorts to ad hominem attacks targeting your deficiencies. Believe me, I have been following her blog for quite some time.....same thing - over and over.

    What I do is pray often. I pray that God will thwart her efforts to promote abortion as a solution, and that her words will not influence anyone on the fence over an abortion decision - especially since she professes to be a follower of Christ. I also pray for her and all the pro abortion bloggers to know the truth.

    So anonymous, quit wasting your time (unless you just do this for fun).

    And Criss, in the words of Mark Levin, "Thank me!" Maybe you won't have to fuss with anonymous anymore (yeah, you're right.....there will always be an anonymous to take his/her place....hehehehe)

    Sincerely,
    anotheranonymous

    ps. @anony.....Criss is really not as smart as she thinks....check out the parasite claim....jeez.

    ps. @Criss....knock yourself out on this one ;)

    ReplyDelete
  65. Anonymous11:54 PM

    http://womenbygrace.com/story-behind-i-will-carry-you/

    ReplyDelete